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The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

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Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#121

Post by EB-Barrington »

dvh wrote: post #87
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

How does it compare to Luník IX?

I haven't visited - but Stolipinovo is much larger.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#122

Post by vram22 »

emteycz wrote: post #73
Causality1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use the word "gypsy" a lot. The Roma I've met consider it very offensive, almost n-word level offensive. Is that not the case in Europe?

Here in Czechia many use the 'vulgar' variant (cikán) themselves. I wouldn't use it in my writing though.

Interestingly, many variants of that word in different European languages. See section Exonyms in:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#123

Post by eeZah7Ux »

Causality1 wrote: post #37
pmoriarty wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In-group out-group thinking is completely natural. That doesn't make it good. If you expose a dog to only one race or one sex from when it's a puppy, it will be uncomfortable as an adult around others. Same goes for a child. It's up to us to adjust ourselves to a diverse global community that our genes never could've prepared us for.

No, you are conflating fear of the unknown with hate.

Being surprised and even afraid of someone that looks very different from what you are used to is natural in a 3 years old.

Or in an aboriginal that has never seen a person from the other side of the world before.

Fostering hate is a completely different thing.

Especially if someone has the opportunity to learn what racism it, and yet choses to be racist.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#124

Post by nesarkvechnep »

I'm from Bulgaria. I doubt that the Government really wants gypsies to become a functional part of society because they're so easy to buy. Gypsies win elections and that's it. There are some nice people which decide to educate themselves though. Definitely not enough to change the general opinion towards the ethnic group.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#125

Post by shadowprofile77 »

EB-Barrington wrote: post #118
shadowprofile77 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a long-time "hobby" photographer of street and neighborhood life in certain parts of Mexico, I'm curious, how did you build rapport with the locals for the sake of your photography, and that friendly acceptance. I'd love to hear any advice or observations you have.

Just be kind, confident, honest, and friendly. As with most things in life - practice practice practice.

Of course, but were you frequently asked why you were taking photos? In your case, what explanation would you give? Wonderful shots by the way, and thank you for your reply.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#126

Post by purerandomness »

xyzzyz wrote: post #110
glitcher wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But their culture is just nothing about that. And then you go on to describe the effects of poverty, not culture. Sounds to me like they need economic opportunity, not further isolation.

There are plenty of very poor people and groups in Europe. Look at Ukraine, for example: majority of its population lives under what in the US would count as harsh poverty. Average wage outside of Kiev is around $2500 a year (a year, not a month), and even if you adjust it for purchasing power, it still buys you less than $10k does in US. And that’s average : most people survive on less than that, some even on half t…

A Ukrainian has no problems getting a job in a restaurant kitchen in Kiev, while it's virtually impossible for a Gipsy to get a job in the city, or a flat.

This is not something you can compare.

When no amount of grit, resilience, hard work or effort will give you any result, what would you do to survive?

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#127

Post by int_19h »

pmoriarty wrote: post #22
umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

[flagged]

What is definitely natural for humans (and other animals, apparently) is xenophobia in a broader sense, meaning preference for in-group - however defined - over the out-group. The exact definitions are cultural and situational - racism is one example of that - but the point remains that human societies will tend to discriminate naturally, and you need to make a constant conscious effort to restrain them.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#128

Post by EB-Barrington »

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #125
EB-Barrington wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just be kind, confident, honest, and friendly. As with most things in life - practice practice practice.

Of course, but were you frequently asked why you were taking photos? In your case, what explanation would you give? Wonderful shots by the way, and thank you for your reply.

Thanks for the compliment! Yes, I was asked several times that day what I was doing. My explanation was "I'm just taking photos". Lame, but it works if you show a little smile.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#129

Post by ciceryadam »

maest wrote: post #86
marton78 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that many Europeans are racist towards Roma and the other gypsy peoples. Much of what they say will be pure nonsense (e.g., they are stupid, not fit for work, etc), but other common statements you might hear also have some truth to them. For example, "they all steal" is of course a gross simplification, as many Roma are well integrated and live a regular life. However, if you are surrounded by a group of peop…

> a bit racist It's more than a bit. It's institutionalised and pervasive racism. One big difference from the US is that Eastern-Europeans don't even acknowledge there is any racism against gypsies so it's not even part of the public discourse. Much like how fish don't realise they're surrounded by water, so do Eastern Europeans not acknowledge that they live in a racist society. The tensions flaring up in the US are…

I think people always acknowledged it, but it's just that the majority was okay with it. Here's what the opposition said about the Czechoslovak law number 117 from 1927 that created a "gypsy ID card" for everyone older than 14 (ID with all the fingerprints, photo, list of kin, etc):

"We are not satisfied with the fact that one nation keeps the remnants of another from birth to death under police surveillance, we know that the vast majority of the oppressed nation is innocent and irresponsible for the actions of their anti-social minority, whose actions are justified by the current social order ... that mud would be slung on the rest of the nomadic nation and that it be made lawless in such a way that all human rights, which, even according to this constitution, belong to every human being, are taken away from this nation only because its members are dark-skinned. "

more details here: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=https:/...

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#130

Post by ciceryadam »

ithkuil wrote: post #70
de_Selby wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Travellers could also be considered gypsies. They are mainly in Ireland and England and are regarded similarly. Part of the problem is that a nomadic lifestyle just doesn't gel with modern society so they don't integrate at all. For the same reason it's hard for these people to find work and a subset do often turn to crime. Culturally they also have very conservative and often misogynistic views which acts as another…

> Travellers could also be considered gypsies Yes I heard people use that label for all nomadic minorities. I wonder if it's improper use of the word.

Well, in UK it seems that is either Gypsy or Irish Traveller: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers#/media/File:P...
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