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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#281

Post by [deleted] »

jolux wrote: post #9
bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

Antifascists aren't holding rallies chanting "Jews will not replace us" and showing up to peaceful protests with weapons to kill protesters. The amount of paramilitary activity on the left is minimal, especially when compared to the right, adherents of which been caught in several (edit: at least one, Governor Whitmer, I can't find evidence of others right now) plots over the past few months to kidnap and even murder…

[deleted]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#282

Post by mullingitover »

Digory wrote: post #243
the-dude wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which west? Which norms?

1. It's fair to say the President was outmatched by the job. If he wanted to be a dictator, he was incompetent. But the damage to the immediate office of the president is worth considering. No honest person wants to work close to this man, and that's new. 2. The media, in new and unusual ways, has abandoned the goal of neutrality in reporting. 3. The university and corporate culture is overwhelmed with demands for ev…

> 2. The media, in new and unusual ways, has abandoned the goal of neutrality in reporting.

Which media are we talking about? There have always been left, neutral, and right-leaning media, but in the last four years the neutral media was painted as being biased against the president because they reported the facts. The facts, they're very unflattering. The president has brought the pro wrestling 'heel' character into national politics and reporting on that reality is not bias.

> It's another thing to shut down a Country along the same lines in 2020.

The actual mandated shutdowns were pretty weak and pretty temporary. The real damage to the economy has come from people being rational actors and voluntarily practicing social distancing, resulting in heavily stifled demand. See: Sweden. Famously not mandating lockdowns but their economy suffered nonetheless.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#283

Post by [deleted] »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #224
ip26 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 2016-2020 gave us a window into what it's like, I would say your last bit isn't quite right: Authoritarianism rises gradually and relies on people looking away from it, unable to confront inconvenient truths. I feel like many people paid a lot of attention, and confronted truths, and spoke out about it. Yet, Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not risk being shot in the streets at Step B, why…

Assume Covid didn't happen. Are you absolutely sure the voting outcome would have been the same?

[deleted]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#284

Post by glitcher »

glitcher wrote: post #63
commandlinefan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections You may not be old enough to remember, but Al Gore (democrat) did _exactly_ this 20 years ago.

It's quite the revisionist stretch to claim "exactly". There were many very different circumstances.

Relevant article posted on NPR just today:

FACT CHECK: What's Happening In This Election Is Not Like Florida In 2000

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/13/934190243/fact-check-whats-ha...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#285

Post by embeddedisaster »

The scariest thing in this, that all these things happening now in the world again. Even in Europe (I live in Hungary), I can feel all this happening, the false creation of enemies, let it be inner or external. There is always some fight we have to win, airing in the mostly state related media. And one by one every institution is grinded into the system, by small or big changes in the constitution, hinding under other less controversial laws, changes, usually proposed a day or hours before the parliament votes on it. And the only thing I can think about now, is to move out of the country, like a coward.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#286

Post by throwawayabc456 »

joeberon wrote: post #278
throwawayxyz123 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33 Racially charged ownership stickers. Many added to protect from racially charged vandalism. A familiar sight in 2020 USA. On the streets and online. Does your favorite open source project sport an out of place racial banner? True, the confidence of those in power in their ability to harm their targets increases gradually. But make no mistake, using bl…

> an out of place racial banner Are you talking about black lives matter here? If so that is the total opposite of what they meant. That is literally anti-authoritarian, anti-police killing innocent black people.

[flagged]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#287

Post by armenarmen »

jolux wrote: post #240
armenarmen wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

umm this? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53224445

No one disputes there was violence. What is disputed is who perpetrated it. As far as I know, there is no evidence it was committed by CHOP participants.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bigoleboy420/status/1287132537329...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#288

Post by dahfizz »

hahamrfunnyguy wrote: post #262
dahfizz wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What am I supposed to think about the intent of the other side when they're trying to get a legitimate election result overturned to support their preferred presidential candidate? You should think the same way about this as you do about the "russia hacked the election" cries about how the 2016 election was illegitimate.

I don't ever recall hearing that Russia hacked the election, not even in internet memes. Russian interference however in the 2016 election is well documented: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20... . The impeachment vote could have been easily avoided if Trump had come out and denounced Russian meddling and let the investigators do their jobs.

The NYT has a URL and web page dedicated to russia election hacking: https://www.nytimes.com/news-event/russian-election-hacking

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#289

Post by SavageBeast »

drilldrive wrote: post #172
mmastrac wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Consider the erosion of long-standing norms in the west over the last four years and how far society has slipped. These are the first, strong, signs that things are starting to go off the rails.

Last year has had a greater loss of norms of Western thought than we have seen since the dawn of the modern world in almost every Western country. Say what you want about the virus response, but powers that be don't give up newly founded power after they seized it once (the lockdowns never will truly end).

Its almost like there is some ulterior motive surrounding COVID for some reason - though damned if I can figure out what it is!

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#290

Post by RestlessMind »

lisper wrote: post #20
bmmayer1 wrote: post #6

This is a powerful piece about a time in Germany where people couldn't, to paraphrase, see where things could go, and so couldn't really understand when things have started. I suspect that readers will see this piece as a reflection of their greatest fears about our own Republic. Unfortunately, the message will be lost by those who are most in need of hearing it. That includes many of the readers of this piece who th…

I'm sorry, but there is no moral equivalence in the U.S. between the left and the right. It's certainly true that neither side is squeaky clean, but the left does not deny basic facts, and in particular, it does not attempt to dispute the outcomes of elections when the results are clear (and indeed has in the past thrown in the towel even when the results were not clear). I could go on and on, but those two things ar…

Left denies basic facts about:

1. Trump's legitimate election in 2016 - see all the hysterical reactions like "Not my president" protests or urging faithless elector to vote for anyone else but trump route or "Russia-gate" (left's Benghazi?) or the impeachment farce. (I don't think I need to provide any citations here).

2. Illegal immigration - left doesn't acknowledge that this is a problem. And then you see left's contradictory messaging ("illegal immigration has slowed down to a trickle") to thousands of children showing up on our borders. Couple that with ridiculous demands like "Abolish the ICE" or calling Obama the "Deporter in Chief". Concrete example of a prominent leftist: https://www.newsweek.com/aoc-abolish-ice-hysterectomy-whistl...

3. Economics: there is a broad agreement among the economists (including someone like Krugman) that rent control doesn't work. Yet you keep seeing repeated attempts from the left. Latest example: CA Prop 21.

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