Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon • Hacker News Board

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#181

Post by alwillis » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 6:35 AM UTC

totalZero wrote: post #171

alwillis wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But x86 and Intel are losing badly in the highest growth part of the market: mobile/smart phones. Now $699 M1-based Mac mini is way faster than any Intel box in that price range and many that cost much more. The benchmarks that are starting to come out are just nuts , favoring the M1. Of course not all of the pieces are in place; that takes a while. But those developers that are on top of their game released universa…

Mobile phones have had a decade of phenomenal growth and development. Now people are at home again, and not quite so mobile. Commensurately, we are seeing a breath of life into a laptop/desktop market segment that, with few exceptions, has been marching to a steady drumbeat for at least the past six years.

Commensurately, we are seeing a breath of life into a laptop/desktop market segment

True. The Mac had its best quarter ever, which should be a good setup for the transition to M1.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#182

Post by Seb-C » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 6:40 AM UTC

totalZero wrote: post #173

Seb-C wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask what do you enjoy with a Macbook not running MacOS? I don't like Apple devices myself but I understand that some people like the ecosystem as a whole. However I don't understand the point of a Mac without MacOS. The hardware is pretty much garbage compared to any laptop of the same price range, let alone high-end laptops like Thinkpads. (this is a honest question and I am not trying to troll or make fun of…

Apple hardware is pretty nice. Spec out a top-of-the-line Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen8 against a top-of-the-line MBP13, and you definitely pay more for the MBP13, but it gives you more and superior RAM, more and superior SSD...the configurable ceiling and hardware quality are higher. The X1C-8 gives you more screen resolution, 4G LTE (not that you would need it if you have mobile hotspot with 5G), more ports, WiFi 6....bu…

You are comparing the specs sheets while I am looking at practical situations.

For the same use cases Linux feels (and is) way more performant and responsive even on a less powerful hardware, and I'm not even talking about Docker.

The MBP keyboard is probably the worse on the market and any lower-end laptop keyboard is more comfortable to use. And nowadays it is not even a complete keyboard since it lack many standard physical keys.

The number of ports is extremely limited and you cannot connect anything without an adapter.

The computer gets hot very easily, and when it does, the keyboard gets extremely hot as well. It is also very noisy compared to any other laptop.

The glossy screen may look cool in a shop but it is very unpractical and uncomfortable.

I do not have any of those problems with my X1, I even have the best keyboard I could hope for a laptop, along with actual features like the Trackpoint, physical camera shutter or the PrivacyGuard.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#183

Post by Hackbraten » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 6:53 AM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #170

floatingatoll wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did the right thing. This is not the right time for software developers to experiment with Apple Silicon, unless they’re willing to help develop software to work with Apple Silicon.

Largely depends on what kind of software developer you are. Not all developers rely on x86. Our app is React/ Typescript and we don't use Docker/ x86 virtualization at all. I do need MySQL and a few other tools, but I don't expect they will be long coming (or maybe already running in Homebrew is there Homebrew ARM?) If you make your living writing Mac or iOS software, this is a gift. Might be worth waiting for the ne…

> is there Homebrew ARM?

There is but it’s highly experimental still, with 50 % of formulae not working yet.

Better to run Homebrew with Rosetta for now.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#184

Post by fakedang » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 7:02 AM UTC

edelacruz wrote: post #178

fakedang wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Linux last month. I currently run Windows, Linux and MacOS VM on my machine. From being a Windows guy through all the years, I've found myself increasingly using Linux in this span of time. The only thing preventing me from a complete switch is MS Office. I barely used MacOS, except to diagnose issues on MacOS and run XCode.

May I ask what linux you are using and how you got a Mac VM running? I tried myself and was able to get Catalina running on Ubuntu 20.04 using Openboot. But then Catalina updated itself and crashed after that. I wasn't able to reinstall MacOS successfully anymore, even starting from scratch. If you could help me out by pointing out which products/technologies you used and maybe a website describing step by step, that…

Ubuntu system. Firstly, I disabled updates, not because of Mac in particular, but I've had issues with Windows updates crashing before, so I don't eagerly update.

Apart from that, standard QEMU process. This was the guide I used: https://www.funkyspacemonkey.com/how-to-install-macos-catali...

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#185

Post by AntiImperialist » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 7:07 AM UTC

It will be interesting to see how they do it. As far as I understand, the current Docker Desktop for macOS runs a Linux VM and the docker server and binaries run in that while the client runs natively on macOS.

Running it in a VM is bad enough. If they also had to run the VM in the Intel emulator (Rosetta 2), it could be unusable, performance-wise.

If they developed a macOS subsystem for Linux (like the WSL on Windows) and ran that on Rosetta 2, I can imagine it being faster.

Slightly off-topic: I just realized that they're actually calling it Apple Silicon. I find that name very cringey for some reason.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#186

Post by londons_explore » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 7:23 AM UTC

Looks possible that Apple has internally written patches to docker to get it running on the M1 based machines. I could imagine NDA's might apply, which is why docker devs don't appear worried about it.

I guess they're planning on upstreaming those patches when the hardware is released.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#187

Post by mistercorea » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 7:32 AM UTC

sigh apple is always behind, this is like a dejavu from Microsoft ARM surface tablets/laptops...

hopefully this time apple got it right.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#188

Post by mistercorea » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 7:33 AM UTC

This is like dejavu from Microsofts ARM version of laptop / tablet. hopefully Apple got it right..

and maybe we can get away from x86 platform or Intel and AMD will step up on their games.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#189

Post by hoseja » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 7:34 AM UTC

ghotli wrote: post #153

user5994461 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Does anybody know how Steam handles the new macs? Games are mostly C++, based on my experience with C++ codebases I'd say there's about zero chance that a game could be (easily) recompiled and made to work on ARM. And games won't be ported anyway because it's too much work for too little sales, even if a developer really wanted to make it work they'd need a $2000 new mac to be able to compile/test in the first pl…

As someone who cross compiles C++ to arm (and others) as part of my $dayjob, I sincerely don't understand this comment. I would like to, as maybe there's something I misunderstand. Ninja edit: I guess you're suggesting that some parts are in hand rolled x86 assembly, not just pure C++ that would be output as the cross compiler target architecture?

There's usually a million assumptions that are technically undefined behaviour but work, and immediately break if you try to cross-compile by just changing the target system in CMake or w/e.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#190

Post by skoczko » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 8:02 AM UTC

I've been holding off on upgrading my MBP13 for a few years now because Apple was painfully slow to refresh it. I was ready to order the model that came out in May (with 32GB RAM) but then the rumour about ARM hit the internets so I kept waiting.

Now (I guess always?), it's clear that Apple Silicon is not going to be a comfortable dev environment, at lest not for some and not for a while. JDK macos/aarch64 port is still in dev and so is VS Code. Docker support is probably months away (looking at their roadmap no dev has even started) and when it arrives it's almost certain to be limited to ARM linux images.

Still, hanging on to x86 on a Mac seems like a lost cause and I wonder if I should just change my approach. Rather than getting a beefy MBP, get the cheaper Air with M1 and a powerful MiniPC (NUC or similar) with native Linux. VS Code has a Remote Development (over SSH) feature, has anyone used it? Can it be combined with Docker (on Linux) in a seamless setup where the Air runs VS.Code and all devel happens on the MiniPC through remote coding? Is this setup going to work when VS Code macos/aarch64 is out or is there something else one needs to wait for?