Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon • Hacker News Board

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#161

Post by fakedang » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:34 AM UTC

waheoo wrote: post #148

LeSaucy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a huge reason why I decided to go with a 16" MBP with an i9 vs the M1 today. I assume this will get worked out eventually , but as massive as Apple's gravity is in their ecosystem to pull apps along, they will have a much harder time against the massive library of x86 docker images.

I switched off Mac years ago. My servers run Linux. Not bsd. Having to deal with this sort of stuff is just a waste of time. Mac's don't have a monopoly on quality, haven't for a long time. And since it's a usual response, anyone claiming Linux is too fiddly haven't used it in a long time. And while it can be if you want to roll your own DE its completely optional. Using something like fedora you can literally do alm…

I moved to Linux last month. I currently run Windows, Linux and MacOS VM on my machine.

From being a Windows guy through all the years, I've found myself increasingly using Linux in this span of time. The only thing preventing me from a complete switch is MS Office. I barely used MacOS, except to diagnose issues on MacOS and run XCode.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#162

Post by svrb » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:40 AM UTC

netcraft wrote: post #160

OT, but im curious if one could design a system that had multiple kinds of processors? like for instance an x86 and as well as an ARM? I'm imagining the OS would use one or the other but it could use the right processor based on the kind of application being executed, but also choose to use one that is under utilized through emulation if necessary. I suppose we do something like this when it comes to CPUs and GPUs al…

It doesn't really make sense. Different memory models mean that you'd have to be running two separate OSes, not some kind of unified OS. At most they could try to cooperate over some shared channel to transfer resources back and forth. Certainly not applications But now what you're talking about is two computers communicating over what could just as well be IP, which happen to be in the same box. Not terribly useful.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#163

Post by netcraft » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:40 AM UTC

svrb wrote: post #162

netcraft wrote: post #160

OT, but im curious if one could design a system that had multiple kinds of processors? like for instance an x86 and as well as an ARM? I'm imagining the OS would use one or the other but it could use the right processor based on the kind of application being executed, but also choose to use one that is under utilized through emulation if necessary. I suppose we do something like this when it comes to CPUs and GPUs al…

It doesn't really make sense. Different memory models mean that you'd have to be running two separate OSes, not some kind of unified OS. At most they could try to cooperate over some shared channel to transfer resources back and forth. Certainly not applications But now what you're talking about is two computers communicating over what could just as well be IP, which happen to be in the same box. Not terribly useful.

thanks for the insight, makes sense.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#164

Post by mtzaldo » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:05 AM UTC

waheoo wrote: post #148

LeSaucy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a huge reason why I decided to go with a 16" MBP with an i9 vs the M1 today. I assume this will get worked out eventually , but as massive as Apple's gravity is in their ecosystem to pull apps along, they will have a much harder time against the massive library of x86 docker images.

I switched off Mac years ago. My servers run Linux. Not bsd. Having to deal with this sort of stuff is just a waste of time. Mac's don't have a monopoly on quality, haven't for a long time. And since it's a usual response, anyone claiming Linux is too fiddly haven't used it in a long time. And while it can be if you want to roll your own DE its completely optional. Using something like fedora you can literally do alm…

Fedora is the new Ubuntu

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#165

Post by Polylactic_acid » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:07 AM UTC

nomel wrote: post #155

angrygoat wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the flip side is that, hopefully, the Docker ecosystem will start getting a lot better at multi-arch, at least for x86-64 and ARM. I just ordered an M1 MBP and I'll be quite happy to start thwacking bugs in images and upstreaming the fixes.

I naively assumed, until today, that the whole point of using linux in docker was that you get the multi-arch goodness of linux for free!

Not at all. Docker on a raspberry pi is a massive pain in the ass. Half the images are not compiled for ARM.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#166

Post by Areading314 » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:23 AM UTC

shiado wrote: post #16

I'm actually tempted to get one of the new Macbook Airs. There's something intriguing and fun about navigating the brokenness of a new ecosystem. Does anybody know how Steam handles the new macs?

> intriguing and fun about navigating the brokenness of a new ecosystem

Funny how far we've gotten from "It just works"

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#167

Post by GiorgioG » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 4:55 AM UTC

Apple can keep their silicon - and their shitty OCSP security checks. As the Apple laptops / iMacs die or become obsolete in my house, they'll being replaced by PCs. Let's not pretend that this is some pro-consumer move. I would actively avoid implementing Docker on Apple Silicon, at some point Apple will close the macOS ecosystem and you won't be able to use Docker anyhow.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#168

Post by totalZero » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:03 AM UTC

alwillis wrote: post #128

ForHackernews wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you can't install a non MacOS on these things? Are they basically an iPad in a notebook form factor?

You can't install an operating system that's not signed by Apple. Also, the system partition is read-only (just like Catalina was). However, as they showed at WWDC [1], you can run Linux and other operating system using Apple's hypervisor. And it will run faster on an M1 Mac than it does natively on comparable Intel hardware. [1]: https://developer.apple.com/wwdc20/10686

What exactly is comparable Intel hardware, anyway?

That is to say, am I supposed to compare based on price, power consumption, process node equivalent, or some other factor?

I ask because it's hard for me to understand the comparison otherwise.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#169

Post by X-Istence » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:03 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #127

robertoandred wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've detailed explicitly what won't work with Rosetta.

https://www.apple.com/mac/m1/ doesn't mention anything about what doesn't work with it. It just says "With the introduction of Rosetta 2, M1 and macOS Big Sur seamlessly run apps that haven’t yet transitioned to Universal versions." The details about what won't work are in the developer documentation, which most people who buy Macs don't read.

Most people who buy Macs won't use Docker either, or even know what it is.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#170

Post by ogre_codes » Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:08 AM UTC

floatingatoll wrote: post #146

LeSaucy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a huge reason why I decided to go with a 16" MBP with an i9 vs the M1 today. I assume this will get worked out eventually , but as massive as Apple's gravity is in their ecosystem to pull apps along, they will have a much harder time against the massive library of x86 docker images.

You did the right thing. This is not the right time for software developers to experiment with Apple Silicon, unless they’re willing to help develop software to work with Apple Silicon.

Largely depends on what kind of software developer you are. Not all developers rely on x86.

Our app is React/ Typescript and we don't use Docker/ x86 virtualization at all. I do need MySQL and a few other tools, but I don't expect they will be long coming (or maybe already running in Homebrew is there Homebrew ARM?)

If you make your living writing Mac or iOS software, this is a gift. Might be worth waiting for the next generation with more RAM and even beefier CPUs, but otherwise this is ideal.