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Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

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Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#171

Post by totalZero »

alwillis wrote: post #133
egsmi wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took ARM 35 years to be an overnight success and x86 has a very large install base. It's not going anywhere. Remember this thread from not too long ago? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22837753 x86 has lock in like that in spades. What I think is much more interesting is what the software industry will do with all these random coprocessors we find in chips these days. They seem much less stable than an instru…

But x86 and Intel are losing badly in the highest growth part of the market: mobile/smart phones. Now $699 M1-based Mac mini is way faster than any Intel box in that price range and many that cost much more. The benchmarks that are starting to come out are just nuts , favoring the M1. Of course not all of the pieces are in place; that takes a while. But those developers that are on top of their game released universa…

Mobile phones have had a decade of phenomenal growth and development.

Now people are at home again, and not quite so mobile. Commensurately, we are seeing a breath of life into a laptop/desktop market segment that, with few exceptions, has been marching to a steady drumbeat for at least the past six years.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#172

Post by ericpauley »

user5994461 wrote: post #109
runjake wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$2,000 is a stretch. You can get the high-end M1 Mini for about $1,200. A high-end M1 MBP for under $1,800.

The Macbook Pro that is $1200 in the US is £1300 in the UK and 1449€ in France. Apple products are way more expensive outside of the US. Plus another 100 or 200 in adapters. It's beyond me why they would make a laptop with zero USB and zero HDMI ports. Total is $2000 when converted back in USD.

The new MacBooks have 2 USB ports.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#173

Post by totalZero »

Seb-C wrote: post #142
mhh__ wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can burn the cash then go for it, but unless these laptops can support something other than MacOS I'm (with a sad expression) staying away from them. Obviously if you just make websites it doesn't matter but if I'm buying an ARM device I want to play with the bare metal (you can't even access performance counters in MacOS IIRC)

May I ask what do you enjoy with a Macbook not running MacOS? I don't like Apple devices myself but I understand that some people like the ecosystem as a whole. However I don't understand the point of a Mac without MacOS. The hardware is pretty much garbage compared to any laptop of the same price range, let alone high-end laptops like Thinkpads. (this is a honest question and I am not trying to troll or make fun of…

Apple hardware is pretty nice. Spec out a top-of-the-line Thinkpad X1 Carbon Gen8 against a top-of-the-line MBP13, and you definitely pay more for the MBP13, but it gives you more and superior RAM, more and superior SSD...the configurable ceiling and hardware quality are higher. The X1C-8 gives you more screen resolution, 4G LTE (not that you would need it if you have mobile hotspot with 5G), more ports, WiFi 6....but the central nervous system of the MBP is arguably better.

To answer your question, I don't see much reason to buy a MBP and run it without MacOS, because -- although the build quality is sensational and the MBP travels well -- I'd rather just buy a Lenovo with Windows 10 Pro from the factory, get their top-tier service and repair plan, and still come out cheaper than a new MBP. However, I could see myself converting an old MBP for use as a Windows machine.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#174

Post by ogre_codes »

momokoko wrote: post #159
ogre_codes wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably we will end up with most people on the final generation of Intel Macbooks so we have a while to figure it out. If the early story around performance of the M1 bears out, I suspect this won't be the case. If their CPU for the base MacBook Air trouncing higher end MacBook Pros, what kind of a beast will their higher end CPUs going to be? People who really need x86 compatibility will stick with x86 based Macs…

You realize most engineers write software that runs in production on x86 Linux, right? All that performance is going to be used to run cloud based Linux x86 development environments. Repl.it and Github codespaces are the real winners with the move to Apple Silicon

"Most"?

I'm not entirely sure that's true. Or at least not entirely relevant/ interesting.

First, you have thousands of developers writing code for iOS/ Android & Chromebooks. That right there is a pretty big chunk of developers. And at least for the iOS developers, running on ARM instead of x86 is a significant advantage.

Second, a lot of us are writing software for the web which means primarily writing software that runs in the browser. So long as we have a good running version of node.js and a browser to test with, we are golden. Assuming for a moment here that Google Chrome and Firefox are both going to be ported to ARM, I don't really see why I care about x86 linux except...

Of course you need to serve up your site and that piece is usually running on x86. Only... many of us are already crossing platforms. Our web server is Node on Linux and my dev system is MacOS (no Docker or Linux VM) so I'm already cross platform.

When I was primarily running a Python/ Django shop, it was a similar deal—so long as I was able to get Python running I was good. There are definitely a few places where you notice the difference, but there are definitely places where I can use an extra 50% battery life and a faster CPU as well.

I don't know how many other developers really need x86 and how many don't. I have had jobs where running Docker/ Kubernetes was important, but I've had a fair number where it wasn't as well.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#175

Post by pvorb »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #143
pvorb wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, so if you're a developer and buy a Macbook with the M1, all the potential performance gains would be lost when depending on common Docker images. That's quite sad. (It would at least be a huge problem for me. I mostly develop server software that runs on Kubernetes on AMD64 machines.)

Why not just run the ARM images instead of the x64? Granted not everyone makes ARM images, but in a year or so I fully expect that all serious Docker images will have ARM support (not because of Mac, but rather because of ARM’s progress in the server space). And in the meanwhile, building the image yourself isn’t that hard.

Why would your employer pay you to build and test ARM images when the server they're running on is AMD64? Okay, let's be realistic: they'll probably never find out. But still this is wasted effort when you could just as well use a regular x86 machine for development. Cross compilation will lead to many small problems that add up over time...

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#176

Post by takeda »

LeSaucy wrote: post #86
frogblast wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, lots of confusion in this thread. A12Z/DTK: HW does not support virtualization at all. Apple M1 / New Apple Products: HW does support virtualization for ARM64 guests (both windows and linux demonstrated). What about x86 software in the guestOS? Not with Rosetta. Instead, the guest OS will have to provide its own translation (such as windows/arm's current x86->arm64 or upcoming x86_64->arm64 feature). I'm not f…

This was a huge reason why I decided to go with a 16" MBP with an i9 vs the M1 today. I assume this will get worked out eventually , but as massive as Apple's gravity is in their ecosystem to pull apps along, they will have a much harder time against the massive library of x86 docker images.

I find it quite ironic that solution that supposed to make things portable it is now standing in a way of portability.

Yes, I understand why, but still...

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#177

Post by FPGAhacker »

takeda wrote: post #176
LeSaucy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a huge reason why I decided to go with a 16" MBP with an i9 vs the M1 today. I assume this will get worked out eventually , but as massive as Apple's gravity is in their ecosystem to pull apps along, they will have a much harder time against the massive library of x86 docker images.

I find it quite ironic that solution that supposed to make things portable it is now standing in a way of portability. Yes, I understand why, but still...

Apple has only ever used portable to refer to their own platforms. Which is a bit of a stretch of the term considering what it means to the rest of the technical world, but there you have it. Per their own definition they have improved portability among their own platforms.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#178

Post by edelacruz »

fakedang wrote: post #161
waheoo wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched off Mac years ago. My servers run Linux. Not bsd. Having to deal with this sort of stuff is just a waste of time. Mac's don't have a monopoly on quality, haven't for a long time. And since it's a usual response, anyone claiming Linux is too fiddly haven't used it in a long time. And while it can be if you want to roll your own DE its completely optional. Using something like fedora you can literally do alm…

I moved to Linux last month. I currently run Windows, Linux and MacOS VM on my machine. From being a Windows guy through all the years, I've found myself increasingly using Linux in this span of time. The only thing preventing me from a complete switch is MS Office. I barely used MacOS, except to diagnose issues on MacOS and run XCode.

May I ask what linux you are using and how you got a Mac VM running? I tried myself and was able to get Catalina running on Ubuntu 20.04 using Openboot. But then Catalina updated itself and crashed after that. I wasn't able to reinstall MacOS successfully anymore, even starting from scratch.

If you could help me out by pointing out which products/technologies you used and maybe a website describing step by step, that would be great.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#179

Post by mcintyre1994 »

coldcode wrote: post #5

The first AS Macs are targeted at people who don't need things like docker. Eventually all the support needed will be available. It's a two year transition, you have to start somewhere.

Not very clearly targeted. MacBook Air was probably the most popular laptop on my CS degree, and I bought a low-ish end 13” MBP toward the end of it and still use docker on it constantly. And that’s probably even more common now that they’ve pushed the price of the higher end MacBook Pro range so high. And they’ve replaced Intel Macs with M1 in the store, it’s not additive, I can’t buy an Intel MacBook Pro for less than £1799 from Apple any more.
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