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Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

phoronix.com

31–40 of 308 posts

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#31

I have a huge (already downloaded) library on Steam Windows. Does anyone know how to "share" the game resources so that the Linux version only download the executable/runner?

It's a really good idea to just install it on each partition, but good luck...

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#32

Valve is doing god’s work when it comes to Linux gaming. I have played over 40 hours of GTA V without many troubles. The game looks great and performs great. So glad I could get rid of my windows install.

I bought Civ 6 for Linux purely because it was available on Linux. Bought from Steam. It does seem like they're pushing things in the right direction for Linux gaming.

One thing that's important for Linux gaming is that games played under Proton on Steam are counted as Linux sales, so publishers and developers get accurate statistics on how many Linux gamers there are.

If the market is big enough, cross platform development is viable from the start.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#33

How do we deserve Valve? Okay: Any possibility to support their open source work? (except of using steam)

> How do we deserve Valve?

Simple, private ownership structure stemming from bootstrapping. Any presence of external equity or (worse) publicly traded shares would make it impossible to ever consider the money printing machine that the steam store is "good enough" for now and focus on long term strategy instead. Perhaps even allowing certain forms of "benevolence". Companies with private, noninstitutional owners can be infinitely greedy as well, but they don't have to be. Contrast this with publicly traded: there, if there is any reason to believe that more could be earned, someone ruthless/optimistic enough to believe this will bid more for ownership than those who don't and eventually the company is forced to go the ruthless path due to it's ownership structure.

If there were shares traded of a goose that lays golden eggs, the shares would inevitably end up being owned by those who believe that cutting it open yields more than waiting for the next egg. Apparently Newell isn't prone to cutting up the goose.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#34

I have a huge (already downloaded) library on Steam Windows. Does anyone know how to "share" the game resources so that the Linux version only download the executable/runner?

Watch out, the suggestions in the other replies are hazardous. It's possible to add your windows Steam library to a Linux client, after mounting the windows partition, and this will work fine most of the time(so you could still give it a try). However, you're also likely to run into annoying-to-debug issues due to Linux's mishandling of ntfs. I've eventually given up on this method, and I'm not sure if there is a goo…

Maybe share an exFAT partition? Is the support of exFAT on Linux any good now?

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#35
post #33

How do we deserve Valve? Okay: Any possibility to support their open source work? (except of using steam)

> How do we deserve Valve? Simple, private ownership structure stemming from bootstrapping. Any presence of external equity or (worse) publicly traded shares would make it impossible to ever consider the money printing machine that the steam store is "good enough" for now and focus on long term strategy instead. Perhaps even allowing certain forms of "benevolence". Companies with private, noninstitutional owners can…

There are plenty of public companies, such as intel and google, that manage to pursue a long term strategy, to commodotize their complement: https://www.gwern.net/Complement

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#36

How do we deserve Valve? Okay: Any possibility to support their open source work? (except of using steam)

Buy their games without steam.

I'm thankfully for the native games from Valve on Linux. And also for improving gaming on Linux in general. Steam? Steam itself is not necessary and is just another system to lure users and developers into a Vendor Lock-In. Everything useful it provides should be part of libraries. In a better world - we would use a package manager or Flatpak to install games.

I'm sick of the software industry, every big company tries to lock you in. Microsoft (historically with contracts, incompatiblity and UWP and now Cloud), Apple (AppStore and of course incompatibility), Google (Cloud and PlayStore...and making everything else then Google Services a pain) and EPIC (Games Store).

No other industry has managed to be so awful than software industry. You can drive another brand of car than anybody else in your town and be fine with it, as long you get support (spare parts). But software? Hell no! Your choice is either pain through being in a minority or pain through living without control upon your your software, unsteadiness, insecurity, high costs...

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#37

It's cool seeing the tech develop to run D3D/OpenGL on Vulkan/DX12/Metal, moving a lot of code out of drivers and in to libraries. But in the long term apps should all end up using Vulkan/DX12/Metal themselves directly (or modern derivatives) - so there won't be many uses for the old legacy D3D/OpenGL stacks left, so these libraries will probably fall out of use too. So, nice for the short/medium term, but probably n…

> But in the long term apps should all end up using Vulkan/DX12/Metal themselves directly

In terms of "a typical 3d app writes directly to the API", they really shouldn't.

The fundamental shift between DX12/Vk and the earlier APIs is that the old graphics APIs were fundamentally about graphics, in the sense that they described a specific way to draw graphics, and then in conjunction with hardware translated that into something that ran well. Originally, there were many very different ways this was done. Over time the hardware implementations all converged towards a common form, and game developers found themselves not really coding against the old APIs as designed, but twisting it's use into something that translated into what they wanted on the actual hardware. (That they knew and understood because of the consoles that just let the devs target the same or very similar hardware directly without a translation layer on top of it.)

DX12/Vk then approaches the API design from a completely different perspective: They are designed to provide an efficient interface to the functionality that is available in hardware. Much of this is graphics-specific, simply because the hardware is meant to run graphics, but in a very real way the API isn't about the graphics, it's about the hardware. Vk doesn't have the kind of simple graphics pipeline that OpenGL devs are used to, because it's outside the context of the API. You, the developer, are supposed to make your own pipeline, out of the pieces of hardware-supported operations that the API exposes.

Which brings this back to my point: The typical game dev has no interest or need to learn DX12/Vk, because they fundamentally do not provide what the devs need or want. Instead, game devs should largely build their work on top of an actual graphics pipeline. Right now, most devs get that pipeline out of the large 3rd-party game engines (UE, Unity), but if you are not using those, OpenGL or DX11 is not a bad choice, and a lot of studios still do that, and probably will for a very long time yet.

Hopefully over time someone will design a good separate graphics pipeline that runs on DX12/Vk, that is designed purely to be a good abstraction for graphics, and will do that well enough that it will replace most use of the old APIs. However, this will take a very long time, simply because of the human factors. (I already know DX11/OGL, why would I learn something new?) But even when it does, D3D/OpenGL will not be replaced by DX12/Vk, they will be replaced by a new translation layer that sits on top of it and is an analogue of these translation layers being built now.

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought Civ 6 for Linux purely because it was available on Linux. Bought from Steam. It does seem like they're pushing things in the right direction for Linux gaming.

One thing that's important for Linux gaming is that games played under Proton on Steam are counted as Linux sales, so publishers and developers get accurate statistics on how many Linux gamers there are. If the market is big enough, cross platform development is viable from the start.

On the other hand, if the Windows version works fine with Vulcan, why go through the trouble of making a Linux version?

Re: Valve Is Working on Another Extension to Help in Direct3D-over-Vulkan

#40
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that's important for Linux gaming is that games played under Proton on Steam are counted as Linux sales, so publishers and developers get accurate statistics on how many Linux gamers there are. If the market is big enough, cross platform development is viable from the start.

On the other hand, if the Windows version works fine with Vulcan, why go through the trouble of making a Linux version?

It's probably easier to develop proton support for a Windows than to port the entire game to Linux.
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