About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#431

Post by zepto » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 3:49 PM UTC

kaba0 wrote: post #401

zepto wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you own an Apple device?

Not op, but hardware and UX-wise they do a great job. Photo-taking is especially good which is pretty important on a mobile. Also, their phones will be supported for a remarkable number of years, while retaining their price on second hand markets. It doesn’t excuse them from letting me use my phone as I want to.

The op should respond since they seem to feel imprisoned, but you do not.

It sounds like you just like the quality of their product.

Apple does let you use the phone as you want to.

They just didn’t design it to do the things you say you’d prefer. I assume that you wouldn’t have made the trade off if you didn’t think it was worth it.

Liking a product enough to buy while wanting it to be designed a little differently is what we do with almost all purchases.

That is pretty much the opposite of living in a communist dictatorship.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#432

Post by zepto » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #428

zepto wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take your phone to anyone you like and have them make whatever changes you pay for. That is currently your right. It’s not clear what your complaint is.

Whom can I pay for to install something like Termux on my iPad? Apple not only forbids third-parties from offering such a service via the App Store, they also do their best to prevent this by any other path. That they are not 100% successful (jailbreaks) doesn't mean the situation is anyhow comparable to cars, where there is a wide ecosystem of 3rd party support for customization.

There are engineers who can do it for you if you are willing to pay.

If you want easier customization buy Android. That is one of the selling points.

Not all cars are engineered to be cheap to customize easily.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#433

Post by _ph_ » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 4:12 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #432

_ph_ wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whom can I pay for to install something like Termux on my iPad? Apple not only forbids third-parties from offering such a service via the App Store, they also do their best to prevent this by any other path. That they are not 100% successful (jailbreaks) doesn't mean the situation is anyhow comparable to cars, where there is a wide ecosystem of 3rd party support for customization.

There are engineers who can do it for you if you are willing to pay. If you want easier customization buy Android. That is one of the selling points. Not all cars are engineered to be cheap to customize easily.

You are detracting from the point. The point isn't that there is exactly one alternative, which is somewhat more customizable, the point is that Apple makes it willfully difficult to customize. This is not equal to cars.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#434

Post by zepto » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #433

zepto wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are engineers who can do it for you if you are willing to pay. If you want easier customization buy Android. That is one of the selling points. Not all cars are engineered to be cheap to customize easily.

You are detracting from the point. The point isn't that there is exactly one alternative, which is somewhat more customizable, the point is that Apple makes it willfully difficult to customize. This is not equal to cars.

Apple doesn’t make it willfully different to customize.

They make it willfully difficult to compromise it.

It’s not equal to cars, because cars aren’t software and are not vulnerable to the many attacks that phones are.

It seems like you want a more customizable device and are happy to accept the risks.

Why buy an iPhone if it isn’t what you want?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#435

Post by whywhywhywhy » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

vosper wrote: post #168

userbinator wrote: post #158

Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer: https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html Everything is done with "security" as an excuse because it's hard to argue against[1], but I think people are slowly starting to see through that. Apple wants to control every aspect of your life, and if you let it, it will. I wonder whether those who work at Apple and are responsible for doing such thi…

> Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer Can you explain the existence of the MacBook, iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro?

What do you think MacBooks will look like in 5 years? From tomorrow they will already be able to run iOS apps.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#436

Post by whywhywhywhy » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

sscotth wrote: post #234

userbinator wrote: post #158

Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer: https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html Everything is done with "security" as an excuse because it's hard to argue against[1], but I think people are slowly starting to see through that. Apple wants to control every aspect of your life, and if you let it, it will. I wonder whether those who work at Apple and are responsible for doing such thi…

What's a computer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI-iJcC9JUc&t=55

I find it interesting they removed this from their channel.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#437

Post by zepto » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 4:20 PM UTC

kaba0 wrote: post #404

ratww wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet, apple should not be able to disallow me from using my device in any way I want to And my point is that random application developers should not disallow me from using my device in any way I want to, nor they should be allowed to make my device work against my interests. So far, as a user, for the last 25 years, Apple has not disallowed me as much as random developers have, and in fact Apple has fought that fig…

I don’t see how allowing sideloading wouldn’t be a solution for both sides.

It doesn’t explain why if sideloading is what people want, they don’t just buy Android.

People keep trying to say this is about them being denied choice, and yet the choice they say they want is widely available.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#438

Post by whywhywhywhy » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #24

kmeisthax wrote: post #13

Apple: the iPad Pro is a computer Also Apple: how dare you make a sandboxed shell environment for it

"what's a computer" And I might add. Until you are able to develop an iPad app in itself, it is not replacing "a real one"

Think that's just over the horizon, which should be a positive but really it just completes the circle that iOS is all Apple needs and MacOS is the legacy system that will eventually be deprecated.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#439

Post by _ph_ » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 4:29 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #434

_ph_ wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are detracting from the point. The point isn't that there is exactly one alternative, which is somewhat more customizable, the point is that Apple makes it willfully difficult to customize. This is not equal to cars.

Apple doesn’t make it willfully different to customize. They make it willfully difficult to compromise it. It’s not equal to cars, because cars aren’t software and are not vulnerable to the many attacks that phones are. It seems like you want a more customizable device and are happy to accept the risks. Why buy an iPhone if it isn’t what you want?

No they make it willfully difficult to customize. Installing applications is not compromising. And stop with strawmen like "Why buy an iPhone if it isn’t what you want? ". The discussion is about the freedom any buyer of any product should have. Fundamental customer rights.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#440

Post by zepto » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 4:34 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #439

zepto wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t make it willfully different to customize. They make it willfully difficult to compromise it. It’s not equal to cars, because cars aren’t software and are not vulnerable to the many attacks that phones are. It seems like you want a more customizable device and are happy to accept the risks. Why buy an iPhone if it isn’t what you want?

No they make it willfully difficult to customize. Installing applications is not compromising. And stop with strawmen like "Why buy an iPhone if it isn’t what you want? ". The discussion is about the freedom any buyer of any product should have. Fundamental customer rights.

Customers do have the freedom you claim.

Installing Apps can definitely be compromising: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_horse_(computing)

Perhaps you should brush up on computer security.

Just because it’s hard to modify an incredibly complex piece of microelectronics and a huge software base doesn’t mean you don’t have the right.

What you are asking for has nothing to do with freedom.

It has to do with you wanting to force Apple to design their product differently to support your individual desires.

I’m correct to point out that for someone like you, a choice is already available.