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About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

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Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#231

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

roblabla wrote: post #212
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think JavaScript/Clojurescript is the exception because they control the runtime and JIT: whether or not you buy their explanation, I think the reason they state is that this is to enable sandboxing. This is at least plausible to me: to have effective sandboxing, you need to restrict the APIs that a device can call, which means blocking the ability to generate and run arbitrary machine code on-device.

> to have effective sandboxing, you need to restrict the APIs that a device can call, which means blocking the ability to generate and run arbitrary machine code on-device. Please, no, this is not how security and sandboxing works at all. Otherwise, the moment you have an arbitrary code vulnerability, you'd get full access to everything. The way effective sandboxing works is by giving a process a set of capabilities/…

Wouldn’t you have this as part of a defense in depth strategy? Apple’s public vs. private APIs and similar things seem to indicate that at least part of their security model involves static analysis of binaries and only allowing a set of approved APIs.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#232

Post by ratww »

cblconfederate wrote: post #59
smnrchrds wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are being downvoted, but the entire video game industry is the living proof that you can mistreat your developers and use a high churn rate to make sure you never run out of them.

Those are not third party devs, no?

Not in the given example, but one can make a case that console makers behave the same way Apple does regarding their closed platforms.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#233

Post by ratww »

pshc wrote: post #192
catlifeonmars wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people, although certainly not everyone, are perfectly ok with this. I, for one, don’t have the expectation that my iOS devices are general purpose computers. I have the expectation that the device works with zero configuration for a set of fixed purposes in a design language that I’m accustomed to. That’s it.

Exactly! When I’m on my phone I want to use the internet, take pictures, use banking apps, access email and Dropbox, and watch video. That’s mostly it. I don’t expect or want to be productive, as security is more important.

> use banking apps

Coming from a country where at some point the only way to have internet banking was to install an impossible-to-uninstall rootkit in my own machine that fucked up accessibility, messed up Steam and made it impossible for me from using competitors (because other banks needed incompatible rootkits), iOS being the way it is makes a lot of sense.

I once had to spend a whole weekend untangling the mess made by one of these rootkits in my father's computer. I remember it screwed with his ability to use third-party USB digital signing dongles, which he needed for his company to operate. The bank's rootkit basically prevented him from conducting business, and since he needed both bank and emitting digital receipts, the only solution was creating another partition.

I'm not even expecting security at this point, I just want to use the damn thing without some asshole bank developer ruining it forever (or until I reformat the machine).

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#234

Post by sscotth »

userbinator wrote: post #158

Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer: https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html Everything is done with "security" as an excuse because it's hard to argue against[1], but I think people are slowly starting to see through that. Apple wants to control every aspect of your life, and if you let it, it will. I wonder whether those who work at Apple and are responsible for doing such thi…

What's a computer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI-iJcC9JUc&t=55

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#235

Post by zepto »

echelon wrote: post #223
yakz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can build on it... developers have been building on it for years and making money doing it. Don't make an app that allows users to run unapproved software. I think that's a pretty clear rule. If your app makes money (directly or indirectly), pay Apple whatever portion of your revenue that Apple demands. I also think that's a pretty clear rule. If there's something that should obviously be regulated out of existe…

Stop defending Apple and their shitty behavior. > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software How is it 2020 and we're okay with this phrase? What the hell happened? Apple is an enemy of computing and the DOJ needs to break them up.

No. You just need to not buy an Apple product.

Apple is a friend of people who want a curated store.

There are other options for those who don’t.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#236

Post by zepto »

cbsmith wrote: post #105
threeseed wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS developers have made over a half a trillion dollars over the last decade on this unsustainable, constantly shifting foundation that they hate so much. Makes you wonder why they bother ? Maybe it's because the very rules you say developers hate are the ones users find appealing.

Some developers have made half a trillion. Others have lost probably a lot more. The problem with a closed ecosystem that capriciously removed apps isn't that you can't make money. It's effectively protectionism, with those allowed inside the walled garden having less competition and therefore an easier time taking profits. The problem is the risk.

Except it isn’t actually capricious.

It’s really pretty obvious what kinds of thing Apple shuts down.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#237

Post by zepto »

ratww wrote: post #145
nathias wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, people complain about the monopoly, yet they still purchase from monopoly.

The people complaining are developers, while the ones purchasing and defending it are users or are doing so from the point of view of users.

Developers don’t have to purchase Apple products or develop for Apple products either.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#238

Post by zepto »

gorkish wrote: post #179
kmeisthax wrote: post #13

Apple: the iPad Pro is a computer Also Apple: how dare you make a sandboxed shell environment for it

The iPad is a wonderfully capable computer that is crippled by Apple's iOS into being the grown up version of a VTech Tote & Go Apple wont change until they are forced.

Sure, but for all intents and purposes a Linux box is also ‘crippled’ but the ridiculous learning curve, lack of security, and capriciousness of the major companies that support the distros.

Both are good for different people.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#239

Post by arvinsim »

echelon wrote: post #223
yakz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can build on it... developers have been building on it for years and making money doing it. Don't make an app that allows users to run unapproved software. I think that's a pretty clear rule. If your app makes money (directly or indirectly), pay Apple whatever portion of your revenue that Apple demands. I also think that's a pretty clear rule. If there's something that should obviously be regulated out of existe…

Stop defending Apple and their shitty behavior. > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software > unapproved software How is it 2020 and we're okay with this phrase? What the hell happened? Apple is an enemy of computing and the DOJ needs to break them up.

> How is it 2020 and we're okay with this phrase? What the hell happened?

Shareholders happened, that's why.

The lines between company and customers are blurred, giving perverse incentives to defend company practices that wouldn't fly if there were a clear distinction.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#240

Post by steve_taylor »

_qulr wrote: post #41
dylan604 wrote: post #35

"we received a call from Apple" is this a literal statement where some human from Apple called on the telephone to speak to someone about this situation, or is this a phrase that actually means they received an email notification about the situation? I ask because it seems well outside the norm of no-human contact regarding support from FAANG companies.

It's a literal statement. Apple has phone calls with developers on occasion, especially in cases like this. Unusual, but not at all unprecedented. I'll just mention the famous case when a developer actually recorded the phone call with Apple: https://blog.kapeli.com/dash-and-apple-my-side-of-the-story

Sounds like the developer got caught in the act and Apple was being quite forgiving in this case. The Phil Schiller name drop sounds like total bullshit, though.
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