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Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

miketuritzin.com

351–360 of 361 posts

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#351
post #131

My wife and I tried to do this recently on $1.70 per person per day. We didn't last our intended 28 days. A few observations we found: Meat and organic food was too expensive. Fruit is crazy expensive so we bought OJ from concentrate with no additives as a cheap source of Vitamin C. Eggs were are very expensive, but we needed the protein and nutrients, so rationed ourselves to 3 each per week. We had to remove all su…

I'm surprised you found eggs to be expensive. Where I'm at (Eugene, OR), you can find eggs for $7 for 5 dozen -- an incredible deal per nutrient dollar, even on your extreme budget. (This is at the Red Apple, if any Eugene locals are curious.)

Someone else in Eugene, OR on HN?!?! twitter me @joenorton

And, for everyone else below, yes eggs really are that cheap out here. #Move2Oregon4TheEggs

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#352
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure it's still cheaper to roast your own, if you look into the energy bills? (Not to think of your own unpaid work.)

If you calculate your time, almost certainly no, at least for pan roasting.

Yes. Though the energy is probably not that expensive for you as I thought initially.

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#353

I feel like this might be a good time to plug my project: http://swole.me/ It's a diet generator I made over the past few weeks that promotes adhering to certain proportions of macronutrients. I'll probably make a full post about it when I add some more features/food choices, but so far it's been a great way to learn to program. If you use it, let me know if you have any feedback!

This is great!

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#354
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$4 for 90x0.2g of caffeine? How wasteful. I just spend $13 for 400g: http://www.smartpowders.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=s...

Please do not do this. I am sure you don't have the equipment to measure an appropriate dose of caffeine (because scales accurate to 100 milligrams are not very cheap for household use...), and it is not safe to 'eyeball' it. You will start to notice unpleasant effects (restlessness, etc) around 200-500mg, and then above that (say 600-1000mg) you may start to get into what could be called toxic effects (palpitations/…

> I am sure you don't have the equipment to measure an appropriate dose of caffeine (because scales accurate to 100 milligrams are not very cheap for household use...)

The powder can be used by volume; it's not hard to be precise down to a quarter teaspoon or less...

> it is not safe to 'eyeball' it.

Huh? It's perfectly safe to eyeball it if you are not utterly incompetent at sizing up volume; it's a fairly bulky powder and I divided mine up over 3000 pills so I know each pill has less than 130mg. You can find studies that use up to a gram. The LD50 for my bodymass is somewhere upwards of 43 grams, as opposed to the 200mg or so that I use. As a heavy tea drinker, I have plenty of tolerance (http://www.caffeinedependence.org/caffeine_dependence.html indicates at 40mg per 6oz, and each mug around 12oz, I'm easily getting 2-300mg a day).

> You will start to notice unpleasant effects (restlessness, etc) around 200-500mg, and then above that (say 600-1000mg) you may start to get into what could be called toxic effects (palpitations/arrhythmias, GI bleeding, potential for seizures)

Where are these figures coming from, and why on earth are you presenting them without qualification as if they apply to either me or the comment I was replying to? I'm guessing from how these are lowball numbers that they are meant, if at all, for people who do not consume caffeine regularly or at all. I've used ~600mg to see what happens, and I didn't see your toxic effects as one would expect from tolerance; even 300mg doesn't cause the slightest shaking if combined with l-theanine.

And even if I had noticed such negative effects, it wouldn't bother me because I would have to error by 3x the usual amount of powder. A quarter-teaspoon doesn't even hold that much in the first place!

> Caffeine has a half life of 5-8 hours and so by the time you go for your next dose you probably haven't cleared the first one, so you can definitely build up serum concentration.

I am well-aware of this, and don't use any after 5 PM or so; with a Zeo sleep tracker it's easy for me to see the effect of night caffeine use. (I can't speak to whether the original commenter is also responsible. But this is an aspect of caffeine that is not a problem with half-sensible use.)

> Your body can develop a dependency on caffeine and you'll get splitting headaches when you aren't taking it.

As with every other one of your claims, one's mileage will vary... Every few weeks I do quit all substances. I get a mild headache for a day, and that's about it. I think the guy I was replying to (a regular user of caffeine pills, remember?) also knows how withdrawal affects him and whether it is a problem or not.

> It is not easy to die from caffeine toxicity, but it is definitely possible when you have powder on hand.

I also have enough water on hand to kill myself.

> the stuff is BITTER. Really, really unpalatable.

It's not nearly as bad as some other things like piracetam. Not that it matters at all.

> Tablets, capsules, etc. are formulated with binders, preservatives, and inert ingredients that often take up much, much more space than the active compound.

Hence the earlier point about powders coming with a volume->dose specification which makes measuring much easier.

> I'm a pharmacist

Ah, so that explains the well-intentioned - yet over-generalized and somewhat alarmist - advice.

While we're at it, I'd point out that caffeine comes with a whole laundry list of long-term effects - both positive and negative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_caffeine#Over... Given the ambiguity, it's not worth worrying about long-term effects unless you are highly risk-averse.

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#355
post #264
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules in the US are similar. You merely have to have a door that the (often sick) chickens could theoretically leave through. I'm fortunate enough to live in the Midwest and I know all my farmers personally. I know what I'm getting, but I understand this isn't possible for everyone. However, it wasn't long ago when people raised chickens and pigs in New York City. If you want the best nutritional value for your b…

Please elaborate on how you do this.

The short answer: Eat in season; grow your own; buy in bulk; plan better; reduce waste.

The long answer:

1. Learn to cook well. Not like a few dishes well, which is what many people say you should do, but learn the basics of food science. My mother was a chef and my grandmother a restaurant owner, so a lot of this comes naturally for me, but knowing how to turn an egg into hundreds of possible dishes is an asset. The basics (flour, eggs, salt, butter, milk, sugar) can be purchased cheaply and become a lot of things. I never ate ramen in college. When most people say they "have nothing to eat" in their kitchens, they mean "we have no idea to make due with what we have right now." The modern kitchen is a series of boxes and canned goods with limited applications. I avoid that stuff.

Basically, we try to move up the chain. As food moves further away from its natural state, it becomes more expensive per calorie because each producer makes their money on the value-add. Why buy old pasta or bread when I already have flour, salt and eggs and can make it fresh at a fraction of the cost or, at least, at the same cost for comparable quality?

For example: A whole chicken costs me about $6 from my farmer, but I have to break it down. At the grocer here, you'd pay about the same price for a couple of sickly looking breasts. That chicken becomes several meals, stock and dog treats.

Have a plan for what you're going to eat. I know exactly what I will have in my house at any given time and will have a meal plan set out for the week, often with ingredients playing off one another to maximize their usefulness. Rarely do we stumble outside of our budget because we know exactly what we need.

I'm also comfortable enough in the kitchen to make changes on the fly if we have unexpected company or forgot some necessary ingredient.

2. Gardening and canning. My wife does most of this, which she picked up from her father, a master gardener. We're fortunate enough to have plenty of land in a region with wonderful soil, but you can easily cut down on food costs by growing much of your own food. What we don't eat immediately, we save--and make sure to use. I really despise waste. Anyway, seed costs pennies per calorie and if you're able to save seed, the costs decrease over time, but you have to pay for it in hard work. Some people don't want to invest the time. It's a hobby we enjoy.

3. Forage. This is ridiculous to most people, but when I walk through a park I see dozens of edible things and sometimes I eat them. I grew up spending a lot of time in the woods, so this is another thing that's second nature to me, but I never pay for expensive things that can easily be had for free (like mushrooms and berries like gooseberries, elderberries or raspberries grow wild all around me, along with all sorts of wild greens). I go so far as tapping maple trees. But then again, I'm an adventurous eater.

4. Hunt. Many people don't have the stomach for this sort of thing, but a deer can feed me and my family through a winter and a couple of rabbits can feed us for week. I know this is another ridiculous to people outside the Midwest, but for me it's more about survival a personal connection to food/nature than it is a hobby or a sport. I don't take a lot of pride in killing an animal, but it beats cognitive dissonance.

5. Cut back on meat. Neither I nor my wife are vegetarians (obviously), nor do we want to be, but meat is a luxury generally saved for special occasions or times when there is an abundance of meat, like in the fall when my beef rancher slaughters his cattle and hunting season begins. I honestly don't know if we save money here, since when we do eat meat, we tend to buy more expensive cuts. The price/nutritional value isn't cost effective for us. We eat meats 2 or 3 meals a week, on average. The same way we move up the supply chain for food, we move up the food chain itself. Micheal Pollan once wrote something along the lines of "Eat food, mostly vegetables." That about sums us up.

6. Cut back on calories. I feast a few times a year like most people, but normally our meals are very simple and hit our caloric needs fairly precisely. We're not ones to fret over indulgence, but we do have weight and exercise goals. Everything is measured. Related to #1, we rarely eat second helpings and we rarely have leftovers. I wish I could say we had a methodology here but its really something learned over time.

7. Know your farmers, buy in bulk. This one is harder for a lot of people in cities to do, but I know exactly who's making many of the things in my freezer that I didn't make. I buy organic angus beef from the same man, a quarter at a time, and pay about 2.00 a pound for beef he normally sells for $6/lb in the store. Again, if you're not sure of the basics of food science, this can bite you in the ass because you'll have no idea what to do with all the food. You have to have a plan or you'll end up wasting.

Also, a the kid at the grocery store will look baffled if you try to negotiate prices, a farmer will not, especially if you've known him or her personally for years.

You should look into things like joining CSA, which will force you to eat in season (in turn forcing you to learn to cook strange and new things) and are usually comparable prices to most markets. You can also negotiate on their bumper crops so you can store it.

8. You'll notice a pattern here that I'm kind of forced to eat with the seasons and eat pretty locally (this is what my family's been doing for generations, long before these things became recent trends). This is both good and bad for various reasons. I love ratatouille, but by end of summer I can't stand zucchini. Eating with the seasons, even if you're only shopping at the grocer, means you'll get the food at the best prices.

Winters are toughest here because we don't have fresh produce.

All that said, I like pineapple and citrus and that obviously doesn't grow here in the Midwest. But, I try to buy it in peak season, can and store the flavors into the next season as much as possible.

Most of my food budget comes from buying fresh produce in the dead of winter because I can't stand to eat another canned tomato dish, even though "fresh" tomatoes in winter are terrible. There are also things we just can't get freely or grow here. I could raise chickens, but that's a difficult investment, so I buy eggs from a local market who gets them from a local farmer. I can't use eggs purchased in bulk, so it is hard to beat the price. Milk is the same way. Same with meats that aren't raised locally, like lamb and, annoyingly, pork. Same with things like beans and rice.

Ultimately, I could probably bring those costs down even further, but then I'd be depriving myself and as an epicurean eater, I just can't justify it.

The trade off, or course, is time. I'm super sensitive about time. I can always make more money; I can't make more time. However, I find time savings elsewhere in my life (living closer to my job, don't watch much television, etc.).

It's easy to just pop a frozen pizza into an oven. It takes time to make food from scratch. I'm willing to spend the time in this area because it pays off and beats reading Techcrunch. (Honestly, because we plan and keep it simple, most prep happens on Sundays for the week; 15-20 minute dinners are the norm.)

Anyway, that's the long answer.

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#356
post #338
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are cheap those eggs laid by anaemic, malnourished battery hens who are given growth steroids/antibiotics though? I realise that it is possible to find good deals direct from farmers but those prices sound insane! Personally eggs and meat are things I will pay the extra for the animals to be free range and fed a natural diet, and I eat a lot less of them. With a diet such as the one in the post such things can become…

Yeah, I'd have to wonder about the conditions of the chickens with eggs that cheap too. These don't advertise as cage-free or anything like that. Unfortunately, "very cheap" and "humanely, sustainably raised" seem to be in conflict. Terrible factory farming is efficient. :-/ I get a lot of my eggs from my friends mother, who has something like six chickens running around on her farm. It's a great feeling to know exac…

Very cheap eggs and humanely, sustainably raised chickens are possible. You can buy baby chicks for about $2 a piece and they'll produce eggs for years, but you need favorable local laws, time and expertise.

Also, totally agree on fresh eggs. They actually look and taste so much better.

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#357
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$4 for 90x0.2g of caffeine? How wasteful. I just spend $13 for 400g: http://www.smartpowders.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=s...

Please do not do this. I am sure you don't have the equipment to measure an appropriate dose of caffeine (because scales accurate to 100 milligrams are not very cheap for household use...), and it is not safe to 'eyeball' it. You will start to notice unpleasant effects (restlessness, etc) around 200-500mg, and then above that (say 600-1000mg) you may start to get into what could be called toxic effects (palpitations/…

Oh please, I've been doing it for years. I recently wrote an article about it: http://diysupplements.com/2011/02/add-caffeine-to-everything...

To summarize: Get a 0.1g accurate or better scale and dilute the caffeine in water to make measurement easy.

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#358
post #355
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please elaborate on how you do this.

The short answer: Eat in season; grow your own; buy in bulk; plan better; reduce waste. The long answer: 1. Learn to cook well. Not like a few dishes well, which is what many people say you should do, but learn the basics of food science. My mother was a chef and my grandmother a restaurant owner, so a lot of this comes naturally for me, but knowing how to turn an egg into hundreds of possible dishes is an asset. The…

You could write a best-selling cookbook on this stuff.

Format the book to cater to people that can only buy their supplies, with separate sections on more self-sufficient things (like growing vegatables, knowing farmers, etc.) and link to/create a web directory of farmers' markets and farmers directly.

I'd buy it.

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#359
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I meant a decrease from 1909-1919 to the present. I was definitely unclear, sorry about that. You are right, total carb consumption did increase since 1980. But if carbs were the issue, shouldn't we have been fat in 1909-1919, thin in the 80's, and fat again?

I think it's troublesome to compare general disappearance data from so long ago. There can be long-term trends of things like waste and changing methodologies that mess things up. I think your point -- that overall carbs are not the issue -- is right on, though. Looking at wheat data from Statistics Canada going back about as far, people seem to have been eating a ton more wheat a hundred years ago than they do today…

For the record, I realized something interesting about wheat consumption in the USA, which is that sugar follows wheat very often in the modern diet. It's very challenging to find packaged sandwich bread in a USA supermarket which doesn't contain a significant amount of sugar or HFCS. So today, wheat consumption tells you a lot about sugar consumption, but that may not have been the case a hundred years ago.

Re: Eating Healthily for $3 a Day

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheese is too expensive and you can't make cheese from regular organic off-the-shelf homogenized ultra-pasteurized milk. It just doesn't set when you add the rennet Use a mixture of skim milk and cream. Or take a trip into the country and buy 5 gallons from a dairy farmer before it's homogenized.

In many areas this is illegal, and the courts have held up the law saying that there is no such thing as a consumer right to buy raw milk.

That's why I said before it's homogenized not before it's pasteurized. It's no longer raw after it's been pasteurized and not yet homogenized.

The problem with cheesemaking with store bought milk is the homogenization process, not pasteurization.

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