Workers Leaving the Googleplex • Hacker News Board

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#301

Post by bane » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:44 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #203

imjk wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to relax a little there, Mr. Privileged Google Employee.

More than anything, simply respecting the 'say it to my face' rule would be a good start. "See a psychiatrist" ... "asshole" ... etc... are not really necessary.

First

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2501121

Sorry for the negative vibes.

Second, to clarify, I would actually say this to somebody's face (and have in the past), but this is clearly the wrong forum for that kind of outburst and is precisely what pg is talking about when discussing the lower level of comment quality. Lesson learned.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#302

Post by yanw » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:45 PM UTC

johnrob wrote: post #292

yanw wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labor camps?! the fuck! they are being paid regular salary. The author doesn't quite understand the concept of social injustice (nor do you) and so he tries to apply it on patterns he'd found with disastrous consequences. He thinks that if you're gonna give your employees Google type perks you have to give these to everyone who steps inside the plex?! security personnel and cleaning ladies?! contract workers?! that d…

Google profited over 8.5 billion in Q1. There's no way food could be a relevant operating cost for them.

You're missing the point. Google has this manual monotonous task of scanning millions of books, so they choose the company that offers the most cost effective workforce, paychecks and launch breaks are taken care of by the contractor Google hires as they don't pay those workers directly.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#303

Post by noway444 » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:48 PM UTC

johnrob wrote: post #292

yanw wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labor camps?! the fuck! they are being paid regular salary. The author doesn't quite understand the concept of social injustice (nor do you) and so he tries to apply it on patterns he'd found with disastrous consequences. He thinks that if you're gonna give your employees Google type perks you have to give these to everyone who steps inside the plex?! security personnel and cleaning ladies?! contract workers?! that d…

Google profited over 8.5 billion in Q1. There's no way food could be a relevant operating cost for them.

fact: feeding 26,316 employees every day has zero effect on the bottom line.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#304

Post by bradshaw1965 » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:50 PM UTC

haberman wrote: post #295

mmaunder wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discrediting the source or his delivery doesn't change what this looks like on face value: People of color coming out of a building who have no access to the same perks as other employees and where the intention is clearly to avoid publicity of their low cost labor.

There are lots of white people who come out of buildings at Google every day who don't have access to the same perks as the CEOs. Is this news? The intention is to avoid someone making a big stink over a non-issue, because empirically people like yourself will latch onto Michael Moore style "exposes" and make a non-issue into a big problem.

you don't get to decide what is or is not a "non-issue". You have opinions just like anybody else.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#305

Post by yanw » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:50 PM UTC

mmaunder wrote: post #287

kstenerud wrote: post #200

Large companies work by inertia. Google is actually more agile for its size, but it's still a big company and ruled by inertia. In a large company, the majority of people don't know each other, and don't communicate on a daily basis. This means that things of interest get passed from person to person, usually by email, and so the original intent of the message tends to get lost due to the 3rd or 4th reader having no…

Discrediting the source or his delivery doesn't change what this looks like on face value: People of color coming out of a building who have no access to the same perks as other employees and where the intention is clearly to avoid publicity of their low cost labor.

Again these are not Google's employees they are the employees of the company which was contracted by Google.

Sadly the majority of low wage contract workers are minorities, it's not Google's fault.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#306

Post by jcampbell1 » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:50 PM UTC

johnrob wrote: post #292

yanw wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labor camps?! the fuck! they are being paid regular salary. The author doesn't quite understand the concept of social injustice (nor do you) and so he tries to apply it on patterns he'd found with disastrous consequences. He thinks that if you're gonna give your employees Google type perks you have to give these to everyone who steps inside the plex?! security personnel and cleaning ladies?! contract workers?! that d…

Google profited over 8.5 billion in Q1. There's no way food could be a relevant operating cost for them.

Google's profit was 2.8 billion on 8.5 billion in revenue.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#307

Post by Unseelie » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:52 PM UTC

neilk wrote: post #300

I used to work at Google and the "class system" was something that grated on me from time to time. I didn't know any yellow badge folks myself, and was ignorant of their existence, just as the article mentions. But red badges (contractors) are ubiquitous. In one case they fired all the QA contractors and made them reapply for their own jobs -- we're talking about people who had deep knowledge of certain projects, who…

Slight point of interest, do you mean the recycling at Yahoo is a sham, or that it would amuse Yahoo employees to know that Google's recycling is a sham?

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#308

Post by rmrm » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:53 PM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #233

glenra wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They pride themselves of creative thinking, they hire lots of academics, even economists and sociologists. Some of these people should be able to figure out a reasonably cost effective way of organizing these things without making the place resemble a 19th century cotton plantation. Wait, so being offered a job that pays reasonably well with decent work conditions but for which you must solve for yourself the probl…

No, I'm suggesting that the way they stucture these perks and their security arrangements is not as good as it could be. It creates more segregation than necessary. I think that money works pretty well as a general equivalent and perks that require social segregation are not the best way to pay according to different levels of performance or competence.

I basically agree with this thought, although the perks at Google are great PR and appear to be genuinely adored by the employees. At a certain scale of income (enough) perks probably can make a positive enhancement above what they actually cost (and above what the increased salary if the perks were eliminated would "feel" like).

So, if we assume the perks are working for Google at the high end -- at the low end it seems logical that if those said perks are extravagant enough the feasibility of adjusting the money on the low end down enough to compensate for the low end also receiving those perks becomes very negative to those employees. At the low end pay scales where things like being able to pay rent and afford children, receiving cash money is likely preferable than receiving less money and a limo ride to work.

It is possible more perks in lieu of cash at the high end, and more cash in lieu of perks at the low end is actually the optimal solution to compensation package.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#309

Post by JoshCole » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #98

mruniverse wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hilarious. His letter to Ralph was so passive–aggressive. I would have left out these nuggets: 1)... now that I know it's so super-secret 2)... are mostly people of color and cannot eat Google meals 3)... I wasn’t approaching this as an act of muckraking 4)... nice way to meet people who work right next to me but are very clearly not the same class as me

> 2)... are mostly people of color and cannot eat Google meals That's a bummer, because those were indeed people of color who were not allowed to eat Google meals. Well, at least I know why it took you guys in the States 100 years to actually give equal rights to your fellow black citizens: you were all too afraid of losing your jobs.

I don't get this sentiment. I thought that most people with jobs like this weren't getting free meals. I mean, do data-entry workers in your country really get free food, hair cuts, gym access, and cleaning services, among other things? A while back Google offered a million dollar counteroffer to one of its engineers who was going to leave. Do you really expect them to offer millions to a data entry person who is going to leave?

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#310

Post by neilk » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

Unseelie wrote: post #307

neilk wrote: post #300

I used to work at Google and the "class system" was something that grated on me from time to time. I didn't know any yellow badge folks myself, and was ignorant of their existence, just as the article mentions. But red badges (contractors) are ubiquitous. In one case they fired all the QA contractors and made them reapply for their own jobs -- we're talking about people who had deep knowledge of certain projects, who…

Slight point of interest, do you mean the recycling at Yahoo is a sham, or that it would amuse Yahoo employees to know that Google's recycling is a sham?

I should explain, I've worked at both Yahoo and Google. Yahoo's recycling program is a sham, at least for Mission College circa 2007. I don't know about Google.

I've told people about the qualified nurse working emptying wastepaper baskets, but the thing that always makes Silicon Valley nerds go apoplectic is learning that their hard work putting soda cans into the blue container was all for nothing.