Workers Leaving the Googleplex • Hacker News Board

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#291

Post by yaroslavvb » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:30 PM UTC

Lewisham wrote: post #270

motters wrote: post #158

I think someone from Google needs to explain what went on here. Why is what's going on in the 3.14159 building regarded as top secret? If they're just OCRing documents surely that's no big deal. People shouldn't be fired simply because they're interested in sociology.

OK, I'm an intern at Google, and I'm NDA'd, so I can only tell you what could be deduced from if you were a visitor at Google and walking through the halls. It's not that stuff is top secret, it's that information access is regulated to those who aren't full-time employees. Interns (green IDs) and contractors (red IDs) are given what they need to perform their job role, and little more than that. This guy was beginni…

To add to that, the second floor area of the building where most of the data-entry people sit is open to public, meaning that your Googler friend could take you on a tour. Security/legal are always on look-out for people stealing trade secrets. I would guess "videotaping around google property", "refuses to give the tape", "not full-time Googler", triggered some red flags

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#292

Post by johnrob » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:31 PM UTC

yanw wrote: post #278

alsomike wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it's totally outrageous that people with "backgrounds in sociology and political philosophy" are preying on our most vulnerable global corporations and infiltrating their most sensitive and secret labor camps!

Labor camps?! the fuck! they are being paid regular salary. The author doesn't quite understand the concept of social injustice (nor do you) and so he tries to apply it on patterns he'd found with disastrous consequences. He thinks that if you're gonna give your employees Google type perks you have to give these to everyone who steps inside the plex?! security personnel and cleaning ladies?! contract workers?! that d…

Google profited over 8.5 billion in Q1. There's no way food could be a relevant operating cost for them.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#293

Post by bane » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:35 PM UTC

tessro wrote: post #205

bane wrote: post #178

I don't think he understands how contractors work (Google didn't hire you you git, Google contracted your company and your company placed you there to fill the contract) or hourly labor works (you don't get privileges or benefits), so he turns it into a ridiculous conspiracy. Breaking news! Google has hourly employees! - You don't say?! Google has contractors! - Really?! Let's explore the narcissistic exploration of…

Wow. Is this what HN is getting reduced to, that the top-ranking comment is filled with ad hominem attacks? Whether you agree or disagree with the author's motivations, at least be civil. "Nitwit", "liar", "What are you 8?" ... ugh.

You are absolutely right.

This response is relevant to you as well. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2501121

Sorry for being uncivil.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#294

Post by bane » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:36 PM UTC

allenbrunson wrote: post #229

yanw wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the author is clearly delusional. He doesn't seem to understand the difference between being an employee for a company that was hired by Google and being a Google employee and instead concocts this story about class warfare and injustice.

it would certainly have been possible for the comment author (bane) to have made that point without all the nasty name-calling.

also to you as well (see my other comments)

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2501121

Sorry for being nasty. You are absolutely right.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#295

Post by haberman » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:36 PM UTC

mmaunder wrote: post #287

kstenerud wrote: post #200

Large companies work by inertia. Google is actually more agile for its size, but it's still a big company and ruled by inertia. In a large company, the majority of people don't know each other, and don't communicate on a daily basis. This means that things of interest get passed from person to person, usually by email, and so the original intent of the message tends to get lost due to the 3rd or 4th reader having no…

Discrediting the source or his delivery doesn't change what this looks like on face value: People of color coming out of a building who have no access to the same perks as other employees and where the intention is clearly to avoid publicity of their low cost labor.

There are lots of white people who come out of buildings at Google every day who don't have access to the same perks as the CEOs. Is this news?

The intention is to avoid someone making a big stink over a non-issue, because empirically people like yourself will latch onto Michael Moore style "exposes" and make a non-issue into a big problem.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#296

Post by neilk » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:37 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #200

Large companies work by inertia. Google is actually more agile for its size, but it's still a big company and ruled by inertia. In a large company, the majority of people don't know each other, and don't communicate on a daily basis. This means that things of interest get passed from person to person, usually by email, and so the original intent of the message tends to get lost due to the 3rd or 4th reader having no…

I think you are wrong in your assertion that "it takes a lot to rile up a company". It takes very little, as you can see from his story.

Just pointing out blindingly obvious facts of privilege, race, and class can cause large companies to shit themselves.

That's the point.

You see his statements as passive-aggressive. They aren't. Passive-aggressive is something like "I respect your right to your opinion, no matter how steeped in white male professional privilege it may be." His statements are completely factual, even underplayed. I didn't even hear any ill-will towards the company (that just fired him, and threatened to fire his friends and co-workers), any conclusion about Google or TransVideo's actions, or indeed anything other than mild interest in people who didn't come from the same background.

Now, we don't know what really happened, other than his own account. But I find the story credible.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#297

Post by haberman » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:40 PM UTC

johnrob wrote: post #292

yanw wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labor camps?! the fuck! they are being paid regular salary. The author doesn't quite understand the concept of social injustice (nor do you) and so he tries to apply it on patterns he'd found with disastrous consequences. He thinks that if you're gonna give your employees Google type perks you have to give these to everyone who steps inside the plex?! security personnel and cleaning ladies?! contract workers?! that d…

Google profited over 8.5 billion in Q1. There's no way food could be a relevant operating cost for them.

You don't profit 8.5 billion dollars by spending money every time a self-important internet critic thinks you ought to.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#298

Post by antiterra » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:41 PM UTC

jxcole wrote: post #191

Interesting. My Dad once sued microsoft because they had many "temporary" workers who did not get the full benefit of full time workers. These workers were labelled as contract workers however, he was able to win his case because at the end of the day, they were working full time for Microsoft. Not only that, they were often employed by microsoft for many years, even though the claim was generally that these employee…

Your dad's "winning" of the case was a mixed blessing. It did not result in temporary workers becoming real employees with full benefits. Instead, it removed a number of benefits from temporary employees of large corporations all over the country. It also removed the contractor's ability to work for longer than a year at a time without a break.

For example, Intel does not allow temps to use the gym because their legal department worries that might make the division between employee and contractor less solid.

The ruling has created a group of roaming workers who will often work a lesser job for 90 days until they can go back to their big company temp job.

A number of contractors would consider themselves better off if your dad hadn't sued Microsoft. Corporations don't need to do anything illegal for this to be the case.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#299

Post by bane » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:42 PM UTC

alxv wrote: post #252

imjk wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to relax a little there, Mr. Privileged Google Employee.

I don't think he is a Google employee. He is a Google aficionado perhaps, but likely not an employee.

correct, I am not a Google employee...but I do need to relax a bit.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2501121

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#300

Post by neilk » Sat, Apr 30, 2011, 6:43 PM UTC

I used to work at Google and the "class system" was something that grated on me from time to time.

I didn't know any yellow badge folks myself, and was ignorant of their existence, just as the article mentions.

But red badges (contractors) are ubiquitous. In one case they fired all the QA contractors and made them reapply for their own jobs -- we're talking about people who had deep knowledge of certain projects, who'd been on certain teams for years, who were valued contributors, people who we didn't want to lose. But because they had a red badge, they were subject to petty whims of bureaucrats from on high, unlike white badges. At least on my team, almost all red badge QA contractors were of Indian origin, and often female.

Now that's not very different from how a normal company works. But Google just made the distinction difficult to ignore since white badges had so many privileges, including, for engineers, the right to reallocate themselves, or to exploit the famous 20% time. Google's image is that they are pioneering a different way of working, with more workplace democracy, but the truth is that these privileges are limited to as few employees as they can get away with.

And of course, the biggest class division has to do with the people who do physical labor and sanitation. I tend to work after hours and I also tend to talk to people even if they're supposed to be "invisible", so I've had conversations with some of the workers. (Ironically, one conversation conducted using Google Translate). That person emptying your wastebasket might be qualified to do nursing back in her home country. Oh, and it might amuse Yahoo employees to know that their recycling program is a complete sham -- everything is emptied into the same trash containers anyway, and the workers are forbidden from taking the cans away to cash in themselves.