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Workers Leaving the Googleplex

andrewnormanwilson.com

271–280 of 421 posts

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This person was fired for pointing out systematic racism at google. If it is true that they have a separate building where the 'people of color' work segregated from the others, that is pretty outrageous. It really does say something about the corporate culture there. I hope it is investigated more closely by other parties, and that Google can make it better If there is something like this happening.

And they don't get free ice cream sandwiches when the ice cream truck pulls up. Is that racism or is it economics? Scanning books is a manual process that is much like sewing or factory work in the repetitiveness. (Maybe less skilled than sewing). The "racism" of the situation happened years before anyone walked onto the Google campus. The socio-economic opportunities of things like safety, education, nutrition, book…

In a corporation the size of Google there will be a lot of other low-paid workers, secretaries, post-room, catering, etc.

Are they all yellow badge too?

And do they all steal secrets as you seem to imply every low-paid person is bound to do?

Seriously, just because someone is low paid doesn't mean they're any less trust worthy. That's one fucked up world view you have there. Also it doesn't make much sense as it's the higher paid workers who can do the serious economic damage as they know what's actually valuable.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#272
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exploit? i'm sorry...not having access to free meals, shuttle buses, smartphones, etc isn't exploitation. There's nothing in this that says anything close to exploitation.

They are not allowed to communicate with other employees and are told to report such occurences. Screams exploitation to me.

No one was forbidden from communicating with other employees. In this case, it seems what happened was the woman correctly decided that the situation was unusual (some guy you don't know asking all kinds of questions about your work), and should be checked out by management.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#273

Large companies work by inertia. Google is actually more agile for its size, but it's still a big company and ruled by inertia. In a large company, the majority of people don't know each other, and don't communicate on a daily basis. This means that things of interest get passed from person to person, usually by email, and so the original intent of the message tends to get lost due to the 3rd or 4th reader having no…

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Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#274

I think someone from Google needs to explain what went on here. Why is what's going on in the 3.14159 building regarded as top secret? If they're just OCRing documents surely that's no big deal. People shouldn't be fired simply because they're interested in sociology.

OK, I'm an intern at Google, and I'm NDA'd, so I can only tell you what could be deduced from if you were a visitor at Google and walking through the halls. It's not that stuff is top secret, it's that information access is regulated to those who aren't full-time employees. Interns (green IDs) and contractors (red IDs) are given what they need to perform their job role, and little more than that. This guy was beginni…

You would think an electronic badge would still prevent access no matter the color. But then it would be too difficult to feel special or discriminate.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#275
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally find this article's brand of narcissism-masquerading-as-activism really upsetting. This is not a blog entry about uncovering the seedy side of Google and how they abuse their employees. The only information of this kind to be found in the article is that a). Google has contract workers and b). they're mostly minorities. That's it. The rest of the blog entry is a passive-aggressive lament wherein the auth…

I would have preferred to see your response up there instead of his. More substance. Less abuse.

You are absolutely right about my poor tone and I apologize. I should have taken a deep breath, counted to 10 and wrote when I was calmer. While I stand by the substance of what I wrote, on reflection, my tone was rather poor. Thanks for calling me out on it. It was unbecoming of the kind of discussion we want to see on HN even if I did find the entire OP wildly offensive on numerous fronts.

Chalk it up to an embarrassing lesson learned.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#276
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As dangrossman points out, above, you can be fired for any reason whatsoever, on the spot. I believe the only protections are sex, race, gender, religion, and age. And as for sex, that means you can't be fired for being a male or a female. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation, for which you can still be fired in something like two or three dozen states. (Look into the ENDA which has been repeatedly proposed f…

This person was fired for pointing out systematic racism at google. If it is true that they have a separate building where the 'people of color' work segregated from the others, that is pretty outrageous. It really does say something about the corporate culture there. I hope it is investigated more closely by other parties, and that Google can make it better If there is something like this happening.

its ridiculous to even entertain the "seperate building where people of color work". The Googleplex itself is filled with "non-Anglos".

Lets all be honest with what we're talking about, and in America what "people of color" really means (in most cases, and probably this one). It means black people. This guy noticed a lot of black people with yellow badges. The yellow badges had a high percentage of African Americans. Much higher than in the Googleplex proper (which probably tracks much closer to their % of the US population). And they (apparently) get less perks. This pushes all sorts of historical hot buttons in the American psyche.

What's left up to us to determine (assuming the veracity of the OP) is WHY this is. The most logical reason why is that the yellow badge jobs are low paying jobs, and the company that is contracting for these low paying jobs draws heavily from the African American community in the surrounding areas.

What is possibly interesting in all of this is the original issue of why low paying jobs potentially are filled by a much higher percentage of blacks than high paying jobs, which unfortunately has very little to do with Google, and a lot more to do with educational opportunities and the breakdown of the family structure in some African American communities, imo, which leads to a skewing of the potential job opportunities from urban American African Americans to be lower paying than anyone would like.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American (but grew up in Panama). My experience in the U.S. is that Americans tend to believe a company has no moral responsibility beyond maximizing profits and not violating laws. Even when companies do violate the law (Enron, Horizon, Chevron, etc.) there is a segment of society that rushes to minimize the wrongdoing. My anecdotal experience on HN is that a lot people on the site defend the pursuit of money…

Thanks for taking the time to offer a balanced opinion. I find myself largely agreeing with your sentiments. I think there must be a better balance to be struck between the approach taken in Europe (seen as too difficult to fire people, which isn't conducive to a healthy business environment) and to the American approach (you can be fired at-will). I myself like to watch US-based documentaries like Gasland, Food Inc.…

Thank you for your response.

Your fourth paragraph touches on what I see as a deep seated problem in American society and a problem that will happen in Europe if current trends continue. Your use of the word 'rich' is synonymous with money and material things. This focus on money has lead to what I call the "I've got mine, fuck you" attitude.

Is the U.S. rich in happiness? contentment? My perception is no. The nation is getting fatter, more lethargic, less able to cope with problems, and is focused on acquiring more stuff. Not everyone in the world can live the American lifestyle because there aren't enough resources.

This is not a problem just with America but, as in many things, America is in the lead. Our consumption has led to a giant plastic garbage patch in the Pacific ocean. Our focus on money and getting the best deal has to led to us importing items made with child labor, slave labor, and in oppressive conditions. This is not unique to Americans, it's a human trait. We need better regulation to mitigate these bad traits but it isn't going to happen in the U.S. (at current trends) because the focus is on money. Money and the preservation of it is trumping decency and morality. (Again, as I see things.)

Your example of Dutch voyages in the 1500s is an excellent one. Your point appears to be that financial innovation (money pursuits) can and sometimes do lead to benefits for society. I'll have to think about this for a while before knowing whether or not I agree with it. It sounds plausible.

As a counter, I'll offer this up. The great scientific discoveries of the world were not done for money. Newton would not have been a better mathematician had he been paid more. Human progress, largely, comes from people who like to solve problems. Who are curious about the world and want to understand it. A society that gives such people the means to pursue their intellectual passions is one that progresses.

That natural conclusion from your examples and what you've written is that capitalism (pursuit of money) is a great way to accomplish this. I would argue that a better system needs to be developed because the downsides to the pursuit of money are quite bad and will lead to a world with it's resources plundered.

Lastly, I'll point out that Warren Buffet stopped talking to one of his granddaughters because she talked about wealth to a guy making a documentary on wealth and what it does to people. I don't think I'm better than Warren Buffet and so I think I'd probably do the same thing he did if I was in his shoes. So I think money would change me and my perception of right and wrong. Presently I'd never disown a relative because they talked about wealth and what it does to people.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#278

Large companies work by inertia. Google is actually more agile for its size, but it's still a big company and ruled by inertia. In a large company, the majority of people don't know each other, and don't communicate on a daily basis. This means that things of interest get passed from person to person, usually by email, and so the original intent of the message tends to get lost due to the 3rd or 4th reader having no…

I agree, it's totally outrageous that people with "backgrounds in sociology and political philosophy" are preying on our most vulnerable global corporations and infiltrating their most sensitive and secret labor camps!

Labor camps?! the fuck! they are being paid regular salary.

The author doesn't quite understand the concept of social injustice (nor do you) and so he tries to apply it on patterns he'd found with disastrous consequences.

He thinks that if you're gonna give your employees Google type perks you have to give these to everyone who steps inside the plex?! security personnel and cleaning ladies?! contract workers?! that doesn't make sense. Google engineers get these perks to be happy and make cool stuff, manual workers get a paycheck! that how the world works, that is why people go to college.

Giving everyone these perks would hugely increase operation costs.

This whole post and the attention it’s getting don't make any sense.

News flash: not all employees get paid the same and not everyone is the CEO.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American (but grew up in Panama). My experience in the U.S. is that Americans tend to believe a company has no moral responsibility beyond maximizing profits and not violating laws. Even when companies do violate the law (Enron, Horizon, Chevron, etc.) there is a segment of society that rushes to minimize the wrongdoing. My anecdotal experience on HN is that a lot people on the site defend the pursuit of money…

Thanks for taking the time to offer a balanced opinion. I find myself largely agreeing with your sentiments. I think there must be a better balance to be struck between the approach taken in Europe (seen as too difficult to fire people, which isn't conducive to a healthy business environment) and to the American approach (you can be fired at-will). I myself like to watch US-based documentaries like Gasland, Food Inc.…

Great summary, thanks!

look to the likes of Warren Buffett ... Or Elon Musk ... Or Bill Gates

To put things into perspective: Stanford, Carnegie Technical Schools and Mellon Institute of Industrial Research (merged into CMU), Duke, Cornell and I think some other of the best American universities were founded by the donations of wealthy industrialists.

Re: Workers Leaving the Googleplex

#280
post #148
post #22

The divide between people from different backgrounds was really obvious to me once I moved to Asia. There's an extreme class system at play. There are certainly places with this is exploited, but this isn't always the case. Often times they are just paid less, have less benefits, and work harder (at least, physically)...but they are still free, treated well, and seem generally happy. From the description given, there…

> There is a need for mundane labor, requiring little education/creativity. Well actually there has not been any real need for that for years now. With automation we could replace all those "dull" work places. But the problem is: What do we do with the now unemployed masses? If we want to keep our capitalistic system that is.

> Well actually there has not been any real need for that for years now.

Really. You think OCR technology is at the point of sophistication or expense such that it would be economically beneficial for Google to deploy such technology over hiring humans but they don't do so to maintain our "capitalistic system"?

You think there's some conspiracy of corporations to waste money on unskilled labor to maintain capitalism?

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