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GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

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Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#61
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

youtube-dl does not circumvent any protection measures, so hosting it should not be illegal in any country, including Switzerland. The only problem here is the absurdity of how the DMCA and similar works in the US, which allows companies to easily spam invalid claims and require content removed unless the victim puts in the work to prove the claim invalid. And, of course, that legal cases tend to be settled not moral…

>youtube-dl does not circumvent any protection measures It does.

Where? Can you show me the code?

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

decentralization doesn’t work without a centralized tool. Torrents are nothing more than a clever idea without The Pirate Bay & similar, Bitcoin is worth nothing without the exchanges.

You can create your own TPB by just crawling the DHT network for torrents and downloading the torrent metadata from active peers. In fact I did this once as a fun weekend project. Also you pretty much gave a counterexample to your own argument by bringing up TPB. The "people with guns" would love nothing more than for it to go away, yet here we are - 17 years and counting.

As I said, when it becomes insignificant enough no one cares. As with TPB, it’s blocked in many places and service is down quite often. A few people bother to use it, thus guys with the guns don’t bother.

It’s the same situation with your homebrew unlawful stuff. As long as your impact is not worth the attention of the guys with the guns you can do whatever you want.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#63
post #54
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were a decentralized file sharing protocol that anyone can use to distribute source code and binaries...

decentralization doesn’t work without a centralized tool. Torrents are nothing more than a clever idea without The Pirate Bay & similar, Bitcoin is worth nothing without the exchanges.

> Torrents are nothing more than a clever idea without The Pirate Bay

No, there are magnets now. You can send a torrent as a hash.

The reason it won't work is because you can just take that hash, log all of the swarm ips, send secret letters to all of the isps to reveal the seeders and leechers, bust in their doors and arrest them, publicize their arrests in every newspaper and on every television channel, interrogate them to expose more of the network, then if the law lags create parallel constructions to convict the most important people as the ringleaders of a copyright-violating cartel, and let the rest languish in jail for a little while before dropping the charges six months later and releasing them after their names have been in the paper.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#64
post #35
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are still centralized, i.e. there is one host that belongs to some person or org that's the main upstream repo and which can be hit with a takedown reqeuest. Git itself can be used in a truly decentralized way by having the main repo on IPFS or the like, though. Edit: Also your sibling posts have pointers to projects with real decentralization, such as ForgeFed.

What do you mean with "real" decentralization? Git is as decentralized as you can get. You don't need IPFS to make it decentralized, it's already there. It was designed that way. A lot of people are confused about this because GitHub and GitLab are the only intermediaries they've used to collaborate with git. If that applies to you and you would like to know better, read this: https://drewdevault.com/2019/05/24/What-…

I was pretty clear in what I said: Gitea and Gitlab are centralized.

Git itself is neither centralized nor decentralized by design, it merely provides an infrastructure for replication and is agnostic about whether or not there is a "center" to the space of replicas. It depends on how you use it... but in practice the way it is used in nearly all projects is that there is one "main" (authoritative) upstream repo for a project, and that creates a point of centralization unless you put that repo on IPFS.

Yes, you could also completely forgo having a "main" repo, but how are the users then to find the "latest version" of your project? Who are you going to fork from, how do you discover collaborators? Git does not provide mechanisms for solving these problems; they're outside its scope. But some of the P2P and federated technologies such as IPFS do. With IPFS you can have a main upstream repo that's advertised without there being a host / person / org that can be hit with a takedown request. And other federated projects mentioned in this thread address other questions around collaboration that Github (as well as Gitea and Gitlab) address in a centralized fashion.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#66
I think some people are missing a major point about youtube-dl's takedown. The purpose of this DMCA claim wasn't just to prevent people from downloading videos, it was to set a legal precedent for the RIAA and similar organizations to troll Github and anyone hosting public repositories with it, by linking them to "illegal downloads".

By agreeing to this without any public opposition, Github has become similar to Youtube itself, in that it will be expected to immediately comply with à la carte takedown requests by RIAA and other copyright trolls from now on. It doesn't matter that the actual reason to take down your large repository is political or it simply bothers certain company for miscellaneous reasons, since all it takes is some "illegal content".

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#67
post #56
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. YouTube obfuscates the URL of the video stream for videos which have been identified as containing copyrighted material and are licensed for streaming only through the YouTube Web player or app. The copyright owner has made the material available under a license which permits ONLY that. Youtube-dl contains code to decrypt the URL of the video stream in order to download and save the copyrighted material, in vi…

Out of curiosity, do you have any insight about how this works when applied to other mechanisms and tools? YouTube-dl has a lot of use cases, among which are the downloading of potentially copyrighted works, in a way which seems similar in my mind to the way a VCR has a lot of use cases including, possibly, the recording of TV shows in violation of a license. Why are VCRs permissible to distribute but not this softwa…

> Why are VCRs permissible to distribute but not this software?

1) Because the Supreme Court -- in a narrow 5-4 decision -- ruled them so in the "Betamax case" after the MPAA tried -- and up to that point succeeded -- to have them banned as tools of copyright infringement. The MPAA was sore about this for decades afterward, maintaining that the SCOTUS was simply wrong as a matter of law. My girlfriend's stepfather was a high-powered attorney for the MPAA, and he banned the use of VCRs in the house because to use them to record off the TV was, in his view, unquestionably copyright infringement, SCOTUS ruling or no SCOTUS ruling. And he was one of the foremost experts in the country on this area of the law.

2) The Court, in its Betamax decision, said that "[T]he sale of copying equipment, like the sale of other articles of commerce, does not constitute contributory infringement if the product is widely used for legitimate, unobjectionable purposes. Indeed, it need merely be capable of substantial noninfringing uses." However, the DMCA explicitly closes that loophole. Any tool or device whose primary purpose is to circumvent copyright protection is illegal to use or distribute -- save for certain carve-out exceptions including security research, interoperability research, and law enforcement use -- irrespective of whether it has "substantial noninfringing uses" as would, for example, a tool to strip out Denuvo protection from your legitimately purchased copy of Doom Eternal so you can play the game without Denuvo pegging your CPU. The fact that DRM is an irritant that owners of legitimate copies may wish to be removed is immaterial; providing the means to remove it is still a crime.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#68
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again pretty much any policy can be made unenforceable if a sufficient number of people decide to make it so. Technologists with their ability to automate are at a distinct advantage here again. I'm just waiting for youtube-dl to move development to Tor or i2p or another censorship resistant network - and ship with a built-in client to update from there.

Probably the lawyers will move on when the thing becomes hard enough to use and gets contained to few techies showing off to their few friends and calling it a victory. The issue is that anything that scales needs an infrastructure and infrastructures can be extralegal only if they are not worth the time of the guys with the guns.

The lawyers will only move on when they stop being paid.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#69
post #18

Technologists once again shocked that a policy issue cannot be solved by Technology. Tech solutions that are not aligned with the policy only work until lawyers and politicians catch up.

A newsgroup works. Its just that no one under 30 seems to realize that you don't need js to have a web application.

Re: GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned

#70
post #47
post #37

Some example comments in this thread: >"People should move their youbube-dl repositories to servers hosted in Switzerland, " >"Time for a decentralized version control system?" >"The nice thing about fossil" ... those well-meaning suggestions are missing the true difficulty : The community wants a (1) Schelling Point [0] for workflow/issues/discussions/PRs that's also (2) censorship resistant. So far, (1) and (2) con…

You could always use a newsgroup for patches/issues/discussion. Those are notoriously hard to sensor and usually can be posted to/read by normal mail clients.

The cynical might note that somehow software development happened before modern version control systems, much less GitHub, even existed.
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