Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stop killing animals.
Give me free food
[deleted]
Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
51–60 of 255 posts
Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
The federal government gives farmers a lot of different subsidies already. If we can pay someone to not grow corn, we can pay them for a cow that got killed by a wolf.
Things like that have bad incentive structures and will be gamed
You have to understand farmers and farming. Do you think a true farmer is more dedicated to completing government paperwork or more dedicated to raising another head of livestock? For the gamers/hackers, this is why we fund judges, prosecutors, investigators, and the rest of the court system. You cannot make the case that 5% of those with bad intentions ruin it for the 95% of those with good intentions.
Not saying the policy will ever be correct, but this is why you introduce thresholds, limitations, and requirements. For instance, using donkeys in the pasture to combat predators should be required. Promote smart farming, not just a pocketbook.
Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
#53Hope they continue to do well, and are added to a limited hunting season in my state, creating a balanced population and a new game animal.
Why your first reaction to the recovery of this species (that your own hunter breed almost completely erased), is to think about them as moving targets? Can't you find something more productive to do than to shoot innocent animals?
This season I bought a license to shoot one deer. It was somewhat expensive. Without limited hunting the sides of highways would be knee deep in killed animals and wrecked cars. Something has to keep the population in check. Wolves might help do this, but then they would overpopulate and have no predators.
Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't fathom how people enjoy killing for sport (for food, sure, but solely for pleasure?). That must be some kind of pathology?
In my experience the killing part is not what hunters enjoy. There is a lot more to hunting then pulling the trigger...
I could enjoy the research, stalking, and viewing parts of the experience, but I'd personally rather do it with a camera than a rifle.
Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
#55Yeah this is a bit premature. I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy? Apex predator reintroduction is a good litmus test for how much conservation we can stomach, so I think it's important that we get this right.
Why should we even pay? There's no constitutional right to be able to leave your livestock basically unprotected on vast tracts of land where they're vulnerable to predators. I mean, if it makes it more palatable it's probably worth it to pay farmers... but I viscerally dislike the idea that any industry has the right to: 1. Destroy the environment for their convenience 2. Be indemnified by the government for their i…
Unless you are for the reintroduction of wolves where you live your opinion on this is selfish. Too many wealthy urbanites and subutbanites have a not-in-my-backyard mentality about wolves.
Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
#56It's arguable that, based on continuously declining trends in wild species, wild areas, and biodiversity, we should reverse our 19th-century policy default and apply blanket protection to all wild species. If we find compelling reasons they should be culled or impacted, then that can be done with specific regulation or legislation.
We've gone so far down in wild species and areas, and these are things that we absolutely cannot get back when they are gone.
Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> which a critical mass of Americans are pathologically opposed to Presumably this is a joke?
it is not. https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/job...
I'd take this with a massive grain of salt.
Rasmussen has the highest right leaning bias of any major pollster accounted for in Five Thirty Eight's pollster ratings:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/
Beyond their biased election polls the site seems tailor made to provide links presenting cheap talking points as majority percentages. I won't bother linking anything else on their website.
Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
#58Yeah this is a bit premature. I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy? Apex predator reintroduction is a good litmus test for how much conservation we can stomach, so I think it's important that we get this right.
That would be wealth redistribution, which a critical mass of Americans are pathologically opposed to.
And weirdly enough, frequently ones that receive the largest proportion of it are the ones most against it. Both at the federal level, where generally the money is redistributed from the coasts to the "heartland", to at the local level where the cities heavily support the rural schools, roads, and general infrastructure. Even semi-private industries like telcom services are heavily funded through things like the universal service fund. In areas where there is less support, like healthcare, you see rural hospitals struggling to stay open and maintain staff. And this continues get worse, as noticed by the recent "trade war" where a large proportion of the returns from the increased tariffs were just given to farmers, while the main goal of increased domestic manufacturing were further collapsing.
Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
#59Criteria for listing a species as endangered: https://www.fws.gov/endangered/esa-library/pdf/listing.pdf
What are the criteria for deciding whether to add a species to the list?
A `species is added to the list when it* the present or threatened destruction, modification, or curtailment of its habitat or range;
* overutilization for commercial, recreational, scientific, or educational purposes;
* disease or predation; * the inadequacy of existing regulatory mechanisms; * other natural or manmade factors affecting its survival.
Sounds like gray wolves no longer meet the criteria. In particular, states that lack sufficient current wolf populations can protect them within the state (California and the northeast come to mind).
Personal bias: I'm glad they are part of the ecosystem. I'd like to see one sometime, but probably more comfortable while I'm in a car rather than a tent/hiking, though I understand they are still pretty wary of humans. I do miss seeing the Yellowstone elk herds that have become much more timid since the reintroduction.
Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List
#60It's arguable that, based on continuously declining trends in wild species, wild areas, and biodiversity, we should reverse our 19th-century policy default and apply blanket protection to all wild species. If we find compelling reasons they should be culled or impacted, then that can be done with specific regulation or legislation. We've gone so far down in wild species and areas, and these are things that we absolut…
Unless you are for the reintroduction of wolves where you live your opinion on this is selfish. Too many wealthy urbanites and subutbanites have a not-in-my-backyard mentality about wolves.