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Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

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Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#21

Post by nickff »

gbrown wrote: post #11
Ericson2314 wrote: post #2

Yeah this is a bit premature. I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy? Apex predator reintroduction is a good litmus test for how much conservation we can stomach, so I think it's important that we get this right.

Why should we even pay? There's no constitutional right to be able to leave your livestock basically unprotected on vast tracts of land where they're vulnerable to predators. I mean, if it makes it more palatable it's probably worth it to pay farmers... but I viscerally dislike the idea that any industry has the right to: 1. Destroy the environment for their convenience 2. Be indemnified by the government for their i…

Well, my understanding is that there is no covenant on that land which protects the wolves, so the farmers have some right to shoot them. The states technically own all wildlife within their respective borders, but they’re reluctant to exercise that right against a large and influential lobby. It may also be that harm caused by a re-introduced species is a taking.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#22

Post by falcolas »

ainiriand wrote: post #8
Grakel wrote: post #3

Hope they continue to do well, and are added to a limited hunting season in my state, creating a balanced population and a new game animal.

Why your first reaction to the recovery of this species (that your own hunter breed almost completely erased), is to think about them as moving targets? Can't you find something more productive to do than to shoot innocent animals?

Human hunters are, as of right now, an integral component of keeping wild animals from overpopulating. If you pull the human hunters, the herd sizes will explode (since we've driven away/contained their natural predators), and many of them will starve to death.

Whatever your thoughts on hunting, it's part of the predatory/prey cycle throughout the world. It's also a not-so-distant tradition from our history that goes back millions of years.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#23

Post by imeron »

adamnemecek wrote: post #10
Ericson2314 wrote: post #2

Yeah this is a bit premature. I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy? Apex predator reintroduction is a good litmus test for how much conservation we can stomach, so I think it's important that we get this right.

They would probably start killing their stock themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#24

Post by pcmaffey »

1-more wrote: post #17
ainiriand wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why your first reaction to the recovery of this species (that your own hunter breed almost completely erased), is to think about them as moving targets? Can't you find something more productive to do than to shoot innocent animals?

Eh, a hunter spends hours or days to kill one animal reasonably quickly. A farm slaughters thousands of animals after raising them in absolutely cruel conditions. If I had the goal to make animals suffer fewer creature-hours of pain then faced with the choice to either ban hunting or ban livestock, I'd go with livestock. However if you're vegetarian, vegan, or raise your own livestock then I salute you as having a co…

Wolves are not livestock.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#25

Post by Sunspark »

This is part of the Trump administration's agenda to remove or dismantle anything they can that the Obama administration implemented or put in place. It is the same with all the other environmental regulations and protections they are removing such as the prohibition on drilling for oil in the arctic wildlife refugee, etc.

It's very unfortunate for Americans that this administration's policies are not based on rationalism.

Please VOTE on November 3rd.

Please make sure you are registered to VOTE.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#26

Post by floren »

ainiriand wrote: post #8
Grakel wrote: post #3

Hope they continue to do well, and are added to a limited hunting season in my state, creating a balanced population and a new game animal.

Why your first reaction to the recovery of this species (that your own hunter breed almost completely erased), is to think about them as moving targets? Can't you find something more productive to do than to shoot innocent animals?

They were not erased by the modern hunter, but by farmers who didn't want them eating their sheep and, in many cases, by professional wolf-killers hired by states. The renowned conservation writer Aldo Leopold's earliest work was killing bears, wolves, and mountain lions for the forest service.

Unfortunately it wasn't until we'd nearly erased wolves and grizzlies (cougars have always been too wily to be wiped out) that we decided it was actually good to keep them around. Now we've got them back--but being back, they will need to be managed, and that includes hunting. Not wanton extermination, but rather a season tailored to remove a specific number of wolves in order to reach what the state fish & wildlife department considers appropriate.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#27

Post by brink »

pcmaffey wrote: post #12
Grakel wrote: post #3

Hope they continue to do well, and are added to a limited hunting season in my state, creating a balanced population and a new game animal.

I can't fathom how people enjoy killing for sport (for food, sure, but solely for pleasure?). That must be some kind of pathology?

I enjoy hunting to eat deer, but yeah, I also don't get why you'd kill just to kill.

Re: Gray Wolves to Be Removed from Endangered Species List

#28

Post by jmpman »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #2

Yeah this is a bit premature. I dunno why we don't just pay the ranchers for livestock killed (it's pretty rare) and everyone goes home happy? Apex predator reintroduction is a good litmus test for how much conservation we can stomach, so I think it's important that we get this right.

I agree. Reintroduce them to Times Square. Until then, why should rural residents have to fear for their children’s and pet’s safety?
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