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I Violated a Code of Conduct

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Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#411

Post by GeneralMayhem »

tptacek wrote: post #381
defen wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think we should generalize more, beyond codes of conduct: If you are building an adjudication process for resolving non-criminal personal conflicts (whether that be a Code of Conduct, an HR department, a Title IX proceeding, a professional organization, or something else), you should take a look at Anglo-derived common law and the safeguards against abuse that have been evolved over the centuries. That…

Your premise is that, rather than free association, every group of people owes a kind of due process to everyone else, presumptive of their right to associate. Sorry, I disagree: people can decide they don't want to associate with you or me for reasons we don't find justifiable. I can throw a party and not invite you simply for writing this comment; I can start a project and not allow you to contribute. You can relat…

I think the problem arises when people want to have it both ways. If you want to say "we don't like you, please leave", you're probably [1] within your rights to do so, but then you don't also get to claim to have a fair and impartial process.

[1] This gets nastier when "you" is something like a corporation, a university, or the well-funded host committee of a generally public event. Legally and ethically, your latitude to exclude people from a private party is much greater than is your latitude to exclude people from a public-ish gathering that any person could show up to.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#412

Post by tomp »

I feel sympathy for him/her, but also blame. By defending CoC and the associated wokeness culture, s/he’s literally asking for it.

This happens by design. The whole idea of wokeness is to feign victimhood, use it to usurp power by appealing to people’s emotions and bypassing reason, then strike back in an arbitrary ways to feel powerful, humiliate your “opponent”, and strike fear in observers/bystanders, further consolidating your power.

Wokeness is intellectual cancer. Power-tripping, virtue-signalling, bullying cancer. It must be fought back!

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#415

Post by elric »

friendlybus wrote: post #28

Using CoC's to backstab people is not going to end well. Using CoC's to institute a heirarchy of 'who can criticize who' is going to be rebelled against. Some people are power hungry and use words to get power. They are exposing themselves in the silliest ways. Pure vanity.

> Using CoC's to institute a heirarchy of 'who can criticize who' is going to be rebelled against.

Rebelled against? By whom? If you want to speak at this conference, you have to play by their rules or you won't get invited. Even if you do get invited, and you're not nice, you'll get humiliated and driven to tears. If there's going to be a rebellion, it's by would-be speakers at the conference, but that would be against their own interest: they like to speak at conferences, so they won't. So anyone who wants to speak at this conference will be turning a blind eye to this. Would-be attendees also won't be making a fuss, conferences with interesting speakers tend to attract large crowds. A handful of would-be rebels won't make any difference.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#416

Post by blub »

ALittleLight wrote: post #325
newscracker wrote: post #184

After reading the entire post, I feel really bad for him, and I hope he gets the time off and the support necessary to recover from this incident. I also feel quite angry with how he has been treated. So please let me vent it out here as politely as I’m able to. I can imagine something like this or worse happening on social media groups, but an ostentatious “committee” that listens only to one side and never gives th…

Rebuilt? Why? Do you read the code of conduct when you attend a conference? Personally, I haven't even read the code of conduct for my job, and certainly wouldn't read one if I was speaking at or attending a conference. The CoCs are completely unnecessary and, as shown in this example, arbitrarily enforced. In the blog post I read that their CoC prohibits threats and assaults. Consider how silly that is. If someone's…

They're useless for their stated purpose, but they're quite useful for their real purpose: as a punishment tool used by social justice sadists which are parasitizing projects conferences and organizations.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#417

Post by PhilosAccnting »

cookiengineer wrote: post #408
echelon wrote: post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

I think the OP article is heartbreaking. Not because I think how they handled the case is wrong, but how they excluded him from a society he was embracing and trying to identify with. For my own project I was considering to include a code of conduct. But currently decided against it because I do not think the purpose of a code of conduct should be written down as potential punishments as consequences. A lot of people…

The issue, I sincerely believe, is a form of justice that goes beyond "eye for an eye". I call it "face for an eye": a beatdown in response to a sucker punch.

The cause, frankly, comes from severe psychological trauma that breaks sensible thinking [1]. But, it's no excuse.

The solution? I believe it requires making people more moral, thus making them more just. How to do that is, effectively, something I believe is beyond the scope of my understanding.

[1] http://gainedin.site/ptsd/

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#418

Post by Hokusai »

echelon wrote: post #6

We're literally tearing ourselves apart, and I don't want to hold opinions about human beings anymore. Anyone can be an enemy or dislike you. Social media has rotted us from within and from all sides. Left, right, it doesn't matter. Everyone is so hostile and eager to end other people. This is madness. Yes, I did read the article. We're cancelling people over criticism . Somebody needs to hide Linus. I don't like cri…

> We're cancelling people over criticism.

I will cancel any service that protects or promotes xenophobic views. If history has teach anything is that "tearing ourselves apart" damages everybody in society. If your company promotes xenophobia, if your company promotes behaviors of users that damage society, I will stop paying for your services and look for an alternative.

To denounce fair criticism as "Cancel culture" misses the point. I do not need to pay for your private company service if I disagree with your views.

The moral think to do, the right thing to do, is to not fund the people that seeking to increase economic profits are tearing our society apart.

> diversity of opinions

What make your country great is the diversity of cultures and people. And that is what many are attacking, believing that only "one culture", "one religion" should be allowed in the USA. My money should not go to fund that ideology, you may have your opinion, but I do not have to pay to spread it.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#419

Post by RonanTheGrey »

gorgoiler wrote: post #326
ghaff wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 4th implies the 3rd. If I think you're wrong, I'll say you're wrong--with reasons. Adding some additional words like "in my oh so humble opinion I think" doesn't change the fundamental meaning. (And I have absolutely criticized well-known people's opinions on public stages.)

It absolutely changes the meaning. Perhaps, in some cultures or subcultures, showing humility has a weakening effect but I tend to avoid those places nowadays, or at least push back on them. ...I think [and am willing to be proven wrong.]

A subtle feature of language, at least in English, is that prefacing things with "I think" or "I feel", while displaying humility in personal conversations, has the effect of devaluing your own argument if done in excess. If you are perceived to be forever apologizing for your own opinion, nobody is going to take you seriously, because what you ultimately lack is confidence - and if you're not confident about what you're saying, why should I be?

It is, and should be, OK to actually strongly state a position you hold, especially if you can back it up, and especially if the person you are responding to is going to take your criticism well (which the author did know).

"Joe is an idiot" is very different from "Joe is wrong" especially when Joe is definitively and demonstrably wrong (which he was in this case, the author demonstrated clearly and succinctly how to do something Joel said was difficult to do).

Adults are (or should be) also capable of determining when a talk is a string of personal attacks, or a mature but critical response (critical meaning evaluation, not negative). If every other phrase was "Joel has his head in his ass" then NumFOCUS would have certainly had a case; that wasn't the case here.

Re: I Violated a Code of Conduct

#420

Post by jojobas »

austhrow743 wrote: post #136
chmod775 wrote: post #95

It was clearly a mistake for him to even play along, especially if he was emotionally exhausted already. The best you can do when people are being stupid like this is ignore them. They hold no power over you unless you let them. This whole CoC thing is sadly fraught with virtue signaling psycho-sadists who enjoy playing tribunal. The people who actually cared about fostering inclusive human communities got bullied ou…

Conference talks are marketing that you do to make money. The tribunals wielding CoCs have the power to hit speakers in the wallet. Outside of violence that's pretty much as much power as you can have over a person.

So the solution is not to bet your life on dozens of conference committees that can cancel you out of your job.
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