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Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

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Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#71

Some takes From Benedict Evans that are worth considering: https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/1320378054150148098... “Meanwhile: the NYU app has access to friend data in your feed and friend data is also in the ads it scrapes. And it replaces an actual security model with our trust that NYU are nice people and won't abuse this access. That is exactly how Cambridge Analytica happened.”

Cambridge Analytica happened with an app hosted on Facebook . This is hosted on your browser. So it’s not exactly how Cambridge Analytica happened because the trust model is completely different.

The legal problem & consequences for Facebook werent because of users who opted in to CA collection, the problem was getting your friend's data, who did not consent.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does.

That's enough? Any university with an IRB can scrape people's personal data?

Just in case OP never comes back or you're not aware when you reply later:

This was _exactly_ the issue with CA, data for academics with an IRB laundered into a for-profit entity.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#73
Mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I'm against Facebook censorship, especially of academics. On the other hand, the researchers (and journalists) are going to use this research to browbeat Facebook into more censorship (and specifically censorship of the right, though some non-mainstream progressives will be caught up in the dragnet as well) as they have already done with a ton of hit pieces [1].

What to do, what to do.

[1] Brings to mind the hit-piece: "The Making of a YouTube Radical - The New York Times" article. But there is an ongoing effort to continue pushing Facebook, Twitter and YouTube into more and more censorship of anyone deemed on the right and the Overton window keeps getting smaller and smaller. The situation with the Hunter Biden laptop story and NYPost is absolutely bonkers. Not only do journalists at mainstream center/center-left news outfits not care that Twitter and Facebook outright decided that the story is false and therefore shouldn't be shared by anyone and banned the account of their colleagues at NYPost .. but worse, actually applaud it and justify it.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#74
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is that a major problem with CA was the scaled friend’s data collection. The NYU app scraping modality could easily do the same thing which violates the present FB consent/sharing model of you control your data going to or not going to third party apps. FB has to fight as hard as possible against such apps. Remember Clearview AI? If we want FB to fight CA and Clearview they must fight here as well.

> If we want FB to fight CA and Clearview they must fight here as well. Or they could partner with NYU, offer technical insight to maintain integrity and privacy (me stifles laughter) and do everything to support researchers who potentially could help build trust in their platform. Going after this group just isn't a good look if you're Facebook. If there are valid concerns then don't start with a Cease and Desist.

They might be willing to partner if NYU is willing to indemnify Facebook against any and all liabilities which may result. How likely is NYU to take on that risk? Why should we expect Facebook to take on the risk for NYU?

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#75
post #48
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’m your friend on Facebook should you be allowed to go to my page and give all the information I’ve shared with you to another 3rd party? You trust NYU, OK fine. Can I give the same information about you to pro-Trump researchers?

Yes the OP is absolutely allowed to do this. Their are consequences of befriending people in real life and online. It's up to you to decide who you befriend.

Not according to FTC.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#76
post #6

It's well within their rights as a private company, right? We need to have a serious discussion about the power these FAANGs are exerting and we need to stop making excuses for them.

Is it within the rights of a company to dictate what software I have installed on my personal machine? If Facebook wants to ban every account using the software that is within their rights, but they don't get a say in what I have installed.

Not too long ago I remember people on this exact site making the argument that Slack had a right to determine what browser extensions I ran. Slack also tried to make this argument in the name of "security" when I wrote to them about it. But yes to your point, NO they do not get a say in what users install.

  Thank you for taking the time to write in and share 
  your concerns.
  We hear you and understand how important this issue is 
  to developers. As a communication company we want to 
  make sure we don't put our customers and their data at 
  risk, and it's something we take very seriously. We 
  provide a full-featured platform with many avenues for 
  improving user experience while working with Slack, but 
  we need to also provide the security and privacy 
  controls business owners, IT administrators, and users 
  expect. We're happy to continue the conversation about 
  UX improvements and future extensions to the platform. 
  This is something we'll keep working on as we listen to 
  feedback from the developer community.


  That is a cop out and you know it. An it administrator 
  or corporate is not using this extension and they would 
  lock down their users from installing BROWSER 
  extensions if they thought that was a security risk. 


  Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate your 
  thoughts on this matter.
  I'd like to pose a hypothetical to you if you don't 
  mind! Bearing in mind Slack is a product designed to 
  help teams work together and is geared towards business 
  and enterprises — imagine for a second we're working 
  with an enterprise considering adopting Slack and their 
  security team comes across this extension (or something 
  like it) — and identifies it as a 
  security/privacy/reliability concern. Our job is to 
  alleviate these concerns. They expect better from us 
  and we're doing our best to meet and even exceed those 
  expectations. We're certainly not perfect and we can 
  always do better — for businesses big and small and for 
  developers.
  It is important to note here, we're learning from this 
  experience. We're working with the developer to find a 
  middle-ground which is beneficial to everyone involved. 
  We're reevaluating our processes for these situations. 
  We're listening to feedback from users such as yourself 
  and identifying areas we could improve.
  I understand this has been a disappointing and 
  frustrating situation and I do apologise for any 
  difficulty it has caused you. I promise you, we're 
  working on it. I for one am very excited to see what 
  comes from this. It's been a learning opportunity for 
  us all.
  Let me know if you have any questions, or suggestions. 
  I'm here to help!

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#77
post #13

It's well within their rights as a private company, right? We need to have a serious discussion about the power these FAANGs are exerting and we need to stop making excuses for them.

"It's well within their rights as a private company, right?" To do what? What does that mean?

Block extensions, user software, that interact with their site. Remember, Slack did something very similar not very long ago.

Only with pushback did they relent somewhat.

https://g3rv4.com/2018/08/bye-bye-betterslack

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#78

The world would have been a very different place had Facebook or other big companies built the internet.

Facebook, and Twitter and Google were built by particular libertarian-types who were young and idealistic. They erred on the side of openness and really disliked regulating content. I don't mind them.

The people who are taking over these companies, those people I'm afraid of because they are political and their first instinct is to push ideology and censorship.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#79
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit I use some Google services. At the same time, I have no relationship with the non G:s of FAANG, which arguably is 80% of them (though perhaps not 80% of the influence). I'm not sure how they can really be considered public utilities at that point. None of the services they provide are essential.

Much of the web is hosted on AWS. So, you have an invisible relationship with Amazon. Same with Facebook and their trackers, unless you block them.

> Much of the web is hosted on AWS.

Fair enough. I'm sure I use some web sites that are hosted on AWS, I did not consider that.

> Same with Facebook and their trackers, unless you block them.

That may be (though I block at least some of them), but that's hardly equivalent. I don't depend in any way on Facebook tracking me. If they stopped, I would certainly not suffer from it.

Re: Facebook has sent a cease-and-desist letter to researchers

#80
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weak take. All users of the NYU app have to explicitly sign up and grant the researchers access to their data. It has a very clear privacy policy: https://adobserver.org/privacy-policy/ And, unlike Facebook which sucks up an ever increasing amount of data on you, this project takes only basic demographic information (age group, gender, ethnicity) and what ads that you're shown. No personal data is retained by NYU.

The user signed up, but the app would have access to that user's friend's data who didn't sign up

Nope. This isn't a Facebook app. It's a browser plugin.
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