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The Need for Touch

aeon.co

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Re: The Need for Touch

#61

Post by Juliate »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #52

I don't agree that touch is the most important sense. For me, vision and hearing both come out far ahead. Where would I be without Chopin's music, without the sound of my friends' instruments as we jam, without the loving voices of friends and family? Where would I be without vision, I couldn't see the works of Monet, Van Gogh, Miyazaki, Blizzard, Bethesda, or practically all code and screens and UI? Touch feels nice…

But how sad it is. What a full spectrum of experience of life you are missing then...

Re: The Need for Touch

#62

Post by raducu »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #52

I don't agree that touch is the most important sense. For me, vision and hearing both come out far ahead. Where would I be without Chopin's music, without the sound of my friends' instruments as we jam, without the loving voices of friends and family? Where would I be without vision, I couldn't see the works of Monet, Van Gogh, Miyazaki, Blizzard, Bethesda, or practically all code and screens and UI? Touch feels nice…

I get what you are saying, but it just proves that touch is vilified in the western world.

Touch is extremely important for the development of the newborn, and I'm sure it is for the wellbeing of adults; just because we can do without or with less, doesn't mean we shouldn't have it.

Reducing touch is like a social circumcision, a barbarism disguised as serving a good purpose.

Re: The Need for Touch

#63

Post by oarsinsync »

saiya-jin wrote: post #26
pedrosorio wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen folks like that everyday in pre-covid times, it becomes glaringly obvious once you know what to look for in their behavior I’m curious, what are the telltale signs?

There are many, not 100% for this reason, but often are - unhealthy competitiveness, inability to be happy with what one currently has (clue - it won't get much better once more is achieved). Children from broken families often don't believe in long term relationships or starting family and come up with reasoning like overpopulation and actually doing good for mankind. General insecurities. Afraid of generally any co…

I grew up with loving parents and siblings, we're still a strong coherent family unit.

Unhealthy competitiveness, inability to be happy with what one currently has, don't believe in ... starting [a] family, these things all apply to me.

My parents will celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary next year. I distinctly recall my mother describing my father as her best friend about a decade ago when on the phone to one of her friends.

Suffice to say, I disagree with your theory of tell tale signs. You've just put people in a box incorrectly.

Re: The Need for Touch

#64

Post by raducu »

Juliate wrote: post #61
Dumblydorr wrote: post #52

I don't agree that touch is the most important sense. For me, vision and hearing both come out far ahead. Where would I be without Chopin's music, without the sound of my friends' instruments as we jam, without the loving voices of friends and family? Where would I be without vision, I couldn't see the works of Monet, Van Gogh, Miyazaki, Blizzard, Bethesda, or practically all code and screens and UI? Touch feels nice…

But how sad it is. What a full spectrum of experience of life you are missing then...

It is sad and it robs (mostly) men of those calming and grounding human emotions.

When I had COVID-19, I was taken by an ambulance to the hospital. I was wearing two masks duct taped to my face and the paramedic was wearing one of those white bunny costumes where I could only see his eyes.

He strapped me in, and took my pulse and then placed his hand on my shoulder, which I thought was really unnecessary, because I was strapped pretty good to the bed, then I realized he touched my shoulder to calm me down, not to secure me from falls :)

Re: The Need for Touch

#65

Post by adamsea »

throwawi wrote: post #5
nxc18 wrote: post #2

I don't know how common this is, but I was raised to see intimate touch as reserved exclusively for family and sexual/romantic partners. There's a pretty big mental block when it comes to touch, and I think that's made my life materially worse. Do others experience that? I grew up in New England for context. I'm somewhat fortunate that if I get particularly lonely or touch deprived, I can hop on grindr/scruff/hornet…

Heterosexual male here. I think the last time I touched anyone was when I hugged my mom when she visited me 3 months ago, and before that I don't think I touched anyone for the 6 months since I broke up with my gf. After finishing college I moved to basically the middle of nowhere for my tech job without knowing anyone in the area. Wasn't proactive enough making friends, and because of my gf at the time I didn't seek…

Another possibility is you may not be aware of the impact of not having touch, if it is not something you regularly had.

Re: The Need for Touch

#66

Post by raducu »

throwawi wrote: post #5
nxc18 wrote: post #2

I don't know how common this is, but I was raised to see intimate touch as reserved exclusively for family and sexual/romantic partners. There's a pretty big mental block when it comes to touch, and I think that's made my life materially worse. Do others experience that? I grew up in New England for context. I'm somewhat fortunate that if I get particularly lonely or touch deprived, I can hop on grindr/scruff/hornet…

Heterosexual male here. I think the last time I touched anyone was when I hugged my mom when she visited me 3 months ago, and before that I don't think I touched anyone for the 6 months since I broke up with my gf. After finishing college I moved to basically the middle of nowhere for my tech job without knowing anyone in the area. Wasn't proactive enough making friends, and because of my gf at the time I didn't seek…

My running theory is that western society is built around depriving men of certain emotions that say "you are good enough as you are and should be appreciated just as you are"; be that touch, sex (how many times have I heard this cultural fetish that men should transmute their sexual energy to something "better") .

Like cutting branches from a young tree so that it grows taller or straight -- to serve an ulterior purpose.

The ulterior purpose for cutting emotional branches of men is to increase productivity and yield from men, increase obedience to authority figures for fighting wars and so on.

Re: The Need for Touch

#67

Post by mr_overalls »

germinalphrase wrote: post #4
nxc18 wrote: post #2

I don't know how common this is, but I was raised to see intimate touch as reserved exclusively for family and sexual/romantic partners. There's a pretty big mental block when it comes to touch, and I think that's made my life materially worse. Do others experience that? I grew up in New England for context. I'm somewhat fortunate that if I get particularly lonely or touch deprived, I can hop on grindr/scruff/hornet…

I’ma Brazilian Jiu jitsu player. The sport has a great deal of depth to technique and the physical exertion can be quite intense/rewarding; however, I do believe that the physical touch (and implicit trust therein) are an important aspect as well. It’s aggressive, but neither violent or sexual. Most of my training partners could severely injure me at any time, but I expose myself physically and trust them not to.

I'm a long-time judoka. I took it up as a very awkward teenager, and it had incalculable benefits for my social comfort and development. And I've seen it do the same for others, beyond what might be expected for an athletic/social hobby.

Part of the effect seems straightforward enough - self-confidence at gaining newfound abilities, exercise, socializing, maintaining emotional self-regulation while engaging in controlled "fighting", etc.

But I think there is also something to the mere act of touching other humans and being touched several times a week. As the article suggests, it's comforting, fulfilling a basic human need. I wonder how this all plays out in the brain - can someone with a neuroscience background comment? Is the sense of touch specifically connected to brain areas of social well-being?

Edit:

"Many neuroscientists and psychologists believe that we have a dedicated system just for the perception of social – affective – touch distinct from the one that we use to touch objects. This system seems to be able to selectively recognise caress-like touch; this is then processed in the insula, a brain area connected to maintaining our sense of self and an awareness of our body. Slow, caress-like touch is not only important for our survival, but also for our cognitive and social development: for example, it can influence the way we learn to identify and recognise other people from early in life."

https://aeon.co/essays/touch-is-a-language-we-cannot-afford-...

Re: The Need for Touch

#68

Post by ryandward »

nxc18 wrote: post #2

I don't know how common this is, but I was raised to see intimate touch as reserved exclusively for family and sexual/romantic partners. There's a pretty big mental block when it comes to touch, and I think that's made my life materially worse. Do others experience that? I grew up in New England for context. I'm somewhat fortunate that if I get particularly lonely or touch deprived, I can hop on grindr/scruff/hornet…

There's something fundamentally different that seems to cut cleanly along cultures.

Growing up in a Mexican culture, I have always been taught to be chaste and pious, but it just isn't something I internalized. Instead, my peers were a much bigger influence.

It seems more common in some other cultural contexts to internalize this kind of self-denial with overtones of purity.

Even as a gay man, I never found the need for dating apps, since there isn't as much of a binary distinction between friends/acquaintances and romantic partners.

Re: The Need for Touch

#69

Post by xutopia »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #35

In my country (Pakistan), hugging between men and hugging between women is extremely common. If n close friends are meeting, you will see Choose(n,2) hugs. The lack of hugs was indeed the strangest part of my time in Canada. Why not show the love.

I live in Canada (Quebec) and I have to say that there are less hugs here even than in the anglophone areas. My friends know me as a hugger though and a lot have told me they look forward to my hugs.

Re: The Need for Touch

#70

Post by raducu »

throw4reasons wrote: post #7
throwawi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heterosexual male here. I think the last time I touched anyone was when I hugged my mom when she visited me 3 months ago, and before that I don't think I touched anyone for the 6 months since I broke up with my gf. After finishing college I moved to basically the middle of nowhere for my tech job without knowing anyone in the area. Wasn't proactive enough making friends, and because of my gf at the time I didn't seek…

I coexist with my wife (and 3 year old) but we came to the conclusion that we are utterly incompatible and cooled off the romantic part completely. I hoped things would turn around but the pandemic and wfh exacerbated the problem. I only play with my child (+ the daily hug) but other than that I haven't touched anybody in more than a year and am somewhat somewhat fine with it. I am aware that I am not replacing the n…

> but we came to the conclusion that we are utterly incompatible and cooled off the romantic part completely

> I hoped things would turn around

Tell your wife that.

I feel that I am also incompatible with my wife on an intellectual level, but I can manage many point aspects of our relationship.

One (very) good aspect of our relationship was sex. This has taken a downturn recently and somehow, either because my wife was implying it or some social expectation, I was left with the impression that somehow I was a pig that only wants sex.

A great insight came from a female therapist who told me that sex is also a way to communicate and regulate/re-establish relationships. I shared this insight with my wife who also found it very true.

I'm sure its not just the sex, but touch as well.

There is this modern myth that spouses should be perfect matches and its sort of all or nothing -- this is very wrong and damaging.

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