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Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

reuters.com

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Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#661

Post by aphextron »

breakingcups wrote: post #658
aphextron wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>AMA? Have you experienced any side effects, even mild like injection pain or fatigue? I'm in the Moderna study and feel pretty disappointed that I may have gotten the placebo.

Did they disclose what the control group got as a placebo? For instance, in this study it's a meningitis vaccine, so it could still have those side-effects if you've never had that vaccine.

> Did they disclose what the control group got as a placebo?

The control for Moderna is just saline, which is why I'm fairly certain I got it. No side effects whatsoever, not even soreness.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#662

Post by GuB-42 »

samoa42 wrote: post #656
GuB-42 wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The placebo is the meningitis vaccine. A real vaccine, with side effects that are similar to what is expected of the covid-19 vaccine. It is a well tested and safe vaccine and it will protect you from meningitis but not from covid-19. They are doing that exactly for the reason you are mentioning. Of course, participants are aware of the nature of the placebo they might receive.

> The placebo is the meningitis vaccine wtf?! a placebo should by definition have no effect at all

A placebo doesn't have therapeutic value but it doesn't mean it has no effect at all. And the Meningitis vaccine doesn't have therapeutic value in the contest of Covid-19.

In fact, there are even placebo surgeries. They put you to sleep, cut you open, and stitch you back without actually doing anything inside your body. It is far from nothing, the anesthesia and the incision are real. It is important because you want to compare the effect of the actual operation to everything else that is involved in a surgical procedure.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#663

Post by rusk »

BjoernKW wrote: post #578
neuronic wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not happening, recent polls suggest that in Germany, 55% percent of the population is willing to get the vaccine. That isn't enough for herd immunity (at around 60%) and real vaccination rate will be even lower. There is also no chance in hell that Germans will allow a government-mandated vaccine. It's unconstitutional and there is heavy opposition to government-mandated anything throughout all of society. So we will…

Well, the rest will become immune the natural way fairly quickly: By contracting the virus. Once a vaccine is available and a large share of the population either has been vaccinated or has the opportunity to be vaccinated maintaining the current measures can't be justified anymore.

Nooooooo - how are people still saying this. There is little evidence at this stage that immunity can be gained in this way, for this particular virus.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#664

Post by rusk »

jacquesm wrote: post #623
harry8 wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That problem will solve itself then. At a considerable cost. There's a large number of people for whom the vaccine won't work when it has been taken correctly or who cannot take the vaccine because it will react very badly with their chemotherapy or whatever. This "let Darwin deal with the anti-vaxers" solution, though initially attractive, ends up being sociopathic when you dig into it.

I'm not saying it is attractive. Just that that will be the consequence, it is not sociopathic on my end, it is on theirs. By not taking the vaccine they are also risking the lives of others who do take it and for whom it isn't effective or who can't take it.

Sociopathic is saying “leave it to individual responsibility”

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#665

Post by refurb »

rusk wrote: post #663
BjoernKW wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the rest will become immune the natural way fairly quickly: By contracting the virus. Once a vaccine is available and a large share of the population either has been vaccinated or has the opportunity to be vaccinated maintaining the current measures can't be justified anymore.

Nooooooo - how are people still saying this. There is little evidence at this stage that immunity can be gained in this way, for this particular virus.

If they get over the virus then they developed an immune response that won’t go away immediately.

The question is how long does it last? Even if it lasts only 6 months, that’s still 6 months of protection.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#666

Post by refurb »

divbzero wrote: post #552
aphextron wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>AMA? Have you experienced any side effects, even mild like injection pain or fatigue? I'm in the Moderna study and feel pretty disappointed that I may have gotten the placebo.

… or you might have been lucky with getting minimal side effects. Double blinded placebo controls are critical to clinical trials so you shouldn’t be disappointed one way or the other. Even if you are in the control group you’ll have the opportunity to get the vaccine after you’ve helped prove its efficacy and safety.

That’s actually a big concern. The FDA will likely approve based on an interim readout of data. However, they will want the full set of data around safety and efficacy.

But what happens if a vaccine gets approved while you’re in a trial and not sure if you got the placebo? Well, you can drop out and just get the approved vaccine.

Of course that will trash the original trial you were in.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#667

Post by rusk »

refurb wrote: post #665
rusk wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nooooooo - how are people still saying this. There is little evidence at this stage that immunity can be gained in this way, for this particular virus.

If they get over the virus then they developed an immune response that won’t go away immediately. The question is how long does it last? Even if it lasts only 6 months, that’s still 6 months of protection.

Yes, and that is not what people think of when you say “immunity”

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#668

Post by russholmes »

krona wrote: post #561
russholmes wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BMJ is not a credible source, it is the Daily Mail of medical journals. The author of that article, Peter Doshi, has form: "I think the first thing we to review is who is Peter Doshi? And why is he so insistent on getting this data? Peter Doshi received his BA in anthropology from Brown University, MA in East Asian studies from Harvard University, and Ph.D. in history, anthropology, and science, technology and so…

I didn't cite the BMJ as the source , but nice try. The sources include Cell and Nature, but unfortunately for you that might mean having to read something in order to discount it, which you seem unprepared for.

There is a more balanced review article on herd immunity here: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02948-4

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#669

Post by BjoernKW »

rusk wrote: post #663
BjoernKW wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the rest will become immune the natural way fairly quickly: By contracting the virus. Once a vaccine is available and a large share of the population either has been vaccinated or has the opportunity to be vaccinated maintaining the current measures can't be justified anymore.

Nooooooo - how are people still saying this. There is little evidence at this stage that immunity can be gained in this way, for this particular virus.

There absolutely is evidence of this. It's just not "immunity for life", which is what people commonly seem to think of when they're talking about immunity.

When you've had an infection with one of those rather harmless yet still pesky other coronaviruses - otherwise known as the common cold - you're also immune, for a limited period of time, that is.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#670

Post by maxehmookau »

taneq wrote: post #657
maxehmookau wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I had generalized pain in both arms after the first injection. Not the second. Nothing worse than you'd expect from another vaccination. Mild fever for 48 hours that meant I was too tired to exercise, but I was more than fine to work. (I'm a software engineer. I think if I had a more manual job, I would've struggled!) My follow-ups are every 2 months at a local hospital. They take general observations, ask about…

Do you know if the placebo is laced with something to simulate those side effects? Or is that a clue that you got the real thing? Also I'd assume the vaccine would make you test positive for the immunological screening tests?

This trial doesn't use a placebo, it uses an active control. In this case, an already licenced vaccine for meningitis.

So the side-effects I had could be due to that vaccine, I don't know.

Yes, in theory it would make me test positive for an antigen test. So I'm barred from donating blood as my sample would show as positive for COVID-19 antibodies.

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