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‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#621

Post by nailer »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #614
nailer wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> UK gov destroyed the paperwork You're right. I quoted the parent but it's an important distinction. > Because both sets of people were treated exactly the same by the system. I.e. inhumanely. The destroying of paperwork was incompetence rather than inhumanity. The removal of illegal migrants is also not inhuman: it is lawful and reasonable - if you enter a country illegally, you may be kicked out.

You can “enter a country illegally” in an identical way to entering a country legally . Your entrance can be retroactively made illegal.

You're trying to make it sound like the rules are changing in this case. Some bureaucrats deleted some important information because they're incompetent. The rules remained the same.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#622

Post by dragonwriter »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #127
readarticle wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America in 1998 had little shared ethnic background by the standards of America in 1898, which had a frankly hilarious lack of shared ethnic background by the standards of 1798. California and Texas are utterly dominated by Non-Hispanic and Hispanic white people, the two ethnic groups with by far the highest rates of intermarriage in the United States of America. England 1798 -> Europe 1898 -> Western 1998

First, I've honestly never hear of "Western" ethnicity, but I get what you are trying to say. Hispanics tend to self-identify as white, especially after a few generations. I think the rest of your analysis is just wrong. First there was no "English" America. America from the start had European immigrants. New York was a Dutch colony. The early censuses used "white" and it always meant the same it means today. This id…

> Hispanics tend to self-identify as white

Hispanics in the US mostly are white. Hispanics are significantly White to start with, and there is a definite racial socioeconomic stratification with Whites at the top, and that is not without reflection in resources, skills, and networks which help with immigration to the US.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#623

Post by TulliusCicero »

f1refly wrote: post #597
orf wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but a woke white person might sic a Twitter mob on me for the sin of cultural appropriation. Who cares. Wasn’t the point of the article you’re commenting on that a tiny minority is responsible for outsized impact in discussions like this? So who cares what a “Twitter mob” says about you practicing yoga? Does this really have any bearing on current social justice issues like real cultural appropriation, anymore than…

Your employer who's afraid of a pr disaster cares. Maybe your landlord cares. Some of the more unstable mobsters might care and threaten your physical well-being. Those three points happened already, they destroyed lifes and careers. Also I never understood the concept of "cultural appropriation", what the heck does that even mean? As long as human history goes we've been copying cultural perks from other lands, regi…

> Also I never understood the concept of "cultural appropriation", what the heck does that even mean?

Ask five people, get six answers, as far as I've found.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#624

Post by charlesu »

ericmay wrote: post #95
donohoe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats an over-reaction. The first is not religious in any sense. It appears to be an acknowledgment of the bias's we all have as humans. We all have bias's, unconscious and conscious - its part of being human. In that sense we're all 'racist' to some degree and its important to acknowledge that so as to overcome it. As far as the second example cited I think more information is missing before jumping to a conclusion.

> In that sense we're all 'racist' to some degree and its important to acknowledge that so as to overcome it. No. I reject this. No matter how many times you or others tell me that I’m racist and can’t help it, and if I just pray... I mean take enough sanctioned training courses it’ll go away I will not partake. Period. Nobody is racist until proven otherwise, or racist until they’ve taken enough unconscious bias tra…

> I’m really sick and tired of seeing this crap. It’s ruining western civilization and creating conflict.

It’s ruining western civilization and creating conflict for whom? Western civilization has always been marked by conflict for some.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#625

Post by jlokier »

nailer wrote: post #486
jlokier wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because both sets of people were treated exactly the same by the system. I.e. inhumanely. FYI, they didn't lose the paperwork. UK gov destroyed the paperwork, then deemed people to be illegal migrants. Then those people were told: quit your job (or we'll force it), leave your spouse, move out of your home, and leave the country. Have 2 weeks notice because we're nice. Obviously with nowhere to go to. And because marr…

> UK gov destroyed the paperwork You're right. I quoted the parent but it's an important distinction. > Because both sets of people were treated exactly the same by the system. I.e. inhumanely. The destroying of paperwork was incompetence rather than inhumanity. The removal of illegal migrants is also not inhuman: it is lawful and reasonable - if you enter a country illegally, you may be kicked out.

No, the majority of migrants subject to removal have not entered the country illegally.

Most enter legally, and then something happens which changes that.

For some it's government maladministration. Outside their control. This happens a lot. I think that's inhumane because it's outside their control and they don't have the money or legal backing to fight it, and because the system does not apply ordinary principles of justice to resolve these issues.

For some, it's abuse by government. That is, something just plain illegal by the government, not a mistake but an intentional administrative action which is against the law. Again, I think that's inhumane because most people don't have the money or legal backing to fight.

For some it's that their partner's wage drops below a threshold. Outside their control. I think that's inhumane because once you are in and settled and started a family etc. you should not be so precarious that a slight change in your partner's income results in you having to leave.

Think of the number of people during the pandemic whose income has reduced. Now imagine the added stress of facing deportation on a plane because your partner's income dropped.

For some it's losing their job. Outside their control. I think that's inhumane because it's a breeding ground for abuse by their employer: "if you don't do whatever we tell you and suck it up, we will fire you and you will have to leave your family and the country".

For some it's their partner dumping them. Outside their control. I think that's inhumane because it's a breeding ground for abuse by their partner: "if you don't do whatever nasty things I demand you do for me I will dump you and you will have to leave your job and the country".

For some they never entered - they were born in the country. They are legal until age 18, at which point they lose rights.

I think it's inhumane to remove someone who is born and bred in a country, and who doesn't even know something will happen until at the age of 18 or so, they apply to university, and find out not only can they not go, they get a letter telling them to leave the only place they have ever known. Go "home"... where? There isn't another "home".

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#626

Post by lawtalkinghuman »

vixen99 wrote: post #330
lawtalkinghuman wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the UK doesn't have hyper-partisan television news is because of the regulation of broadcast television (i.e. Ofcom). There is an effort to start a Fox News equivalent in the pipeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GB_News

The instigator and driving force of the supposed 'Fox News equivalent' is Andrew Neil. Try putting it to him that he's 'hyper-partisan'! Neil is anything but that, as unprepared politicians across the spectrum from left to right have discovered to their cost.

He's a professional journalist and while on the BBC, he has competently cross-examined politicians of any party or background, but to pretend he's not on the right is silly, as Ben Shapiro found out to his detriment.

That said, we shall have to wait and see whether Neil continues to be vigorous in his questioning of those on the right when he's on a channel that doesn't have the BBC's theoretical commitment to non-partisan neutrality.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#627

Post by Chris2048 »

rayiner wrote: post #434
shadowgovt wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trainings I'm familiar with have the opposite intent: to help people who don't believe they are racists (or believe racism doesn't exist) understand the unconscious mental processes that feed into racism and the nature of structural discrimination, even when unintended.

We have been teaching people about unconscious bias for years without these theatrics.

But what have we been teaching them?

"there is no good evidence that people are unaware of their biases. While people do often express surprise at the score they get on the Implicit Association Test, that often reflects the labels that are used to express the degree of bias rather than the presence of some difference in attitudes toward different groups"

-- https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/ulterior-motives/201...

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#628

Post by Chris2048 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #572
danmaz74 wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having to publicly humiliate yourself is pure Maoism. How can you compare it to learning type theory?

It's only public humiliation if people perceive it to be public humiliation. what's humiliating about having the same problem that basically everyone does?

That's a funny stance given the context in which the material was introduced: as evidence that powerful people are racist "by their own admission". Doesn't sound like the no-big-deal definition of racism they might have thought they were confessing to.

It also suggests it's up to session-organisers to decide what justifiably humiliates a person.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#629

Post by ido66667 »

alex_c wrote: post #142
another-dave wrote: post #56

I think the main culprit exacerbating this is the main stream media. "Vox pops" have formed part of filling air-time or column inches for a long while, but this is largely replaced now by journalists looking at Twitter and either a) using that as a stand-in for 'this is what the public think' or b) making it the story itself. Social media is no longer just "second screen" below-the-line commenting on events, it's hel…

Sometimes I wish I had a way to block Twitter from my life completely. I don't even use it, but I wish for an AdBlock-like tool that would: - block Twitter content in news articles - block links to articles with Twitter content from ever being shown to me in the first place Most news articles provide little value to my life anyway, but I don't think I've ever read an article referencing Twitter quotes that was worthw…

Using Ublock Origin you could turn on advanced mode and block all scripts from twitter domains. Not only Twitter itself will be blocked (it'll show up as a blank page, although you can disable that specifically for twitter), but all Tweet embeds will be too.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#630

Post by Chris2048 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #464
rayiner wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example is in my OP: It's a session where white people acknowledge that they take personal responsibility for participating in a system of "white privilege" and admit to being "racist" and "gatekeepers of white supremacy." (That's the bailey.) By contrast, your motte: "training on how to work with people from diverse backgrounds.

Honestly, I don't see much distinction between teaching people about structural privilege and suggesting they admit they benefit from it. Difference of degree, perhaps, but not much. You trusted your alma mater when you were taught there; not trusting the direction it's taking now? Is it possible you're not seeing the picture the way they are?

> suggesting they admit they benefit from it

Not "suggesting" - demanding, and specifically labelling themselves "racist" - not just admitting that they benefit from it.

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