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‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#461

Post by nsp »

908B64B197 wrote: post #417
charlesu wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standardized tests could also be considered a way for picking the right kind of person: namely, people who know that standardized tests are something to prepare for. I’ve tutored students at both elite and underperforming high schools. Students at elite schools, irrespective of their socioeconomic status, are highly aware of the importance of standardized tests. Some of the underperforming high schools don’t even adm…

> As for affirmative action being an effort to keep out Asians...have you been to Harvard’s campus? There are many, many Asian students there. In fact, nearly one in five students at Harvard are of Asian descent. The idea that elite schools are purposely excluding Asians is absurd on its face. The people pushing the idea have an axe to grind and it usually isn’t actually in the interest of Asian-Americans. Are there…

I believe it is illegal in california to consider race for public universities, so you could look at Caltech and Berkeley which fit most definitions of elite schools. Caltech is 48% Asian, while MIT is 25.7% for undergrad.

There is the in-state vs out of state tuition distinction, so it's not exactly the same pool as east coast universities.

Sources: https://registrar.caltech.edu/records/enrollment-statistics https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/massachusetts-instit....

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#462

Post by monoideism »

gsk22 wrote: post #453
monoideism wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, fine if hold that viewpoint, but don't gaslight us that nothing new is going on. Politics has invaded everything, and it wasn't like this even 10 years ago.

Disagreeing with your assessment is not gaslighting. I do agree America is more politicized now, but that doesn't mean the answer is to retreat into a shell and pretend the issues don't exist.

> I do agree America is more politicized now,

OK, then please don't play this "what culture war?", as if you have no idea what we're talking about. That's debating in bad faith. I'd not do that to you.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#463

Post by rayiner »

UncleMeat wrote: post #111
rayiner wrote: post #4

I like the More in Common Project. But it overlooks the disproportionate representation of the extremists in our institutions. This happened at my alma matter earlier this year: https://freebeacon.com/campus/northwestern-law-administrator... . They also voted to abandon entrance exams at my magnet high school: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=4979 It’s not comforting to know that only a tiny minority of people a…

I’m one of those “extremists” who went to TJ and supports the end of the test. What can I do to convince you that I’m a real person and not a lunatic?

I didn't call anyone a lunatic. But believing that we should abandon testing entire is an opinion that is extreme in the sense it's not widely held: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/25/most-americ...

Super majorities of people believe race should play no factor at all in college admissions. And grades and standardized test scores are the two things people list first as criteria that should govern admissions decisions. I do not believe that folks who would advocate abandoning standardized testing entirely based on the premise that they're irredeemably flawed are not expressing a widely-held opinion.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#464

Post by shadowgovt »

rayiner wrote: post #436
shadowgovt wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have to nail down what rhetoric you mean for me to have any response to that.

The example is in my OP: It's a session where white people acknowledge that they take personal responsibility for participating in a system of "white privilege" and admit to being "racist" and "gatekeepers of white supremacy." (That's the bailey.) By contrast, your motte: "training on how to work with people from diverse backgrounds.

Honestly, I don't see much distinction between teaching people about structural privilege and suggesting they admit they benefit from it. Difference of degree, perhaps, but not much.

You trusted your alma mater when you were taught there; not trusting the direction it's taking now? Is it possible you're not seeing the picture the way they are?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#465

Post by gsk22 »

monoideism wrote: post #462
gsk22 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreeing with your assessment is not gaslighting. I do agree America is more politicized now, but that doesn't mean the answer is to retreat into a shell and pretend the issues don't exist.

> I do agree America is more politicized now, OK, then please don't play this "what culture war?", as if you have no idea what we're talking about. That's debating in bad faith. I'd not do that to you.

Honestly, I don't know what you're on about. The term "culture war" is extremely vague and with an obvious negative connotation, but as far as I can tell you're simply complaining that politics are more visible in everyday life.

Can you succinctly define what makes a "culture war", and how that is different from political debate?

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#466

Post by [deleted] »

pessimizer wrote: post #143
pvaldes wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had to "confess" that I'm racist and promise to do better or it would have consequences for my career. So, basically inquisitor wannabees and pseudoscience cultists. Your colleague dodged a bullet. The idea that claiming that you are racist makes you not racist is totally gaga, random, and based in magical thinking, not in science. It only helps to hide in plain sight the real racists making much easier to admit…

If you go around asking who the "real racists" are, you'll never find any. Turns out self-reporting is dubious.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#467

Post by maxwindiff »

shadowgovt wrote: post #464
rayiner wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example is in my OP: It's a session where white people acknowledge that they take personal responsibility for participating in a system of "white privilege" and admit to being "racist" and "gatekeepers of white supremacy." (That's the bailey.) By contrast, your motte: "training on how to work with people from diverse backgrounds.

Honestly, I don't see much distinction between teaching people about structural privilege and suggesting they admit they benefit from it. Difference of degree, perhaps, but not much. You trusted your alma mater when you were taught there; not trusting the direction it's taking now? Is it possible you're not seeing the picture the way they are?

Benefitting from structural privileges is very different from being a racist though.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#468

Post by shadowgovt »

rayiner wrote: post #4

I like the More in Common Project. But it overlooks the disproportionate representation of the extremists in our institutions. This happened at my alma matter earlier this year: https://freebeacon.com/campus/northwestern-law-administrator... . They also voted to abandon entrance exams at my magnet high school: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=4979 It’s not comforting to know that only a tiny minority of people a…

As the product of another of the Governor's Schools in Virginia, I've been in favor of the move away from admissions tests to increase diversity opportunity. A lot of students can't afford $100 for testing, and GPA should be a fine proxy for student performance.

Give it a few years to see if the drop-out rate changes.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#469

Post by shadowgovt »

maxwindiff wrote: post #467
shadowgovt wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't see much distinction between teaching people about structural privilege and suggesting they admit they benefit from it. Difference of degree, perhaps, but not much. You trusted your alma mater when you were taught there; not trusting the direction it's taking now? Is it possible you're not seeing the picture the way they are?

Benefitting from structural privileges is very different from being a racist though.

In computer security, we often talk about the lack of distinction between malice and ignorance---if the security system is bad, it doesn't matter if the attacker is intent on causing harm or merely innocently curious and hack-sawing away through your computer security for fun. The outcome is the same.

I think the same principle applies here. Malicious racism and passive racism have the same effect.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#470

Post by monoideism »

gsk22 wrote: post #465
monoideism wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do agree America is more politicized now, OK, then please don't play this "what culture war?", as if you have no idea what we're talking about. That's debating in bad faith. I'd not do that to you.

Honestly, I don't know what you're on about. The term "culture war" is extremely vague and with an obvious negative connotation, but as far as I can tell you're simply complaining that politics are more visible in everyday life. Can you succinctly define what makes a "culture war", and how that is different from political debate?

OK, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war#Broadening_of_the_...

Specifically, stuff like QAnon, facemask protests, BLM, trans rights, "white privilege", anthem protests, etc etc etc. There's pretty widespread recognition in the US of culture war flashpoints.

But before I engage anymore: are you American? Because we're discussing these political topics in the US context in this thread, explicitly.

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