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‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#611

Post by specialist »

wombatmobile wrote: post #608
specialist wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neil Postman's books influenced me tremendously. I've been rereading McLuhan, Postman, Huxley, etc. Manufacturing Consent is the most directly applicable to understanding social media. With at least two updates to the thesis. #1 The outrage machine is fueled by advertising, right? What's new is the motivating control (choice) moved from the advertiser's intent to the algorithmic recommenders. #2 Third parties learned…

Have you read Technopoly? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbAPtGYiRvg

Yup. That book and Donald Norman’s Psychology of Everyday Things completely changed my trajectory.

Great video. I’d never heard Postman speak before. Thanks.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#612

Post by wombatmobile »

specialist wrote: post #611
wombatmobile wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read Technopoly? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbAPtGYiRvg

Yup. That book and Donald Norman’s Psychology of Everyday Things completely changed my trajectory. Great video. I’d never heard Postman speak before. Thanks.

Same.

There are more videos of him there, including an hour and a half lecture. I suppose that’s ironic, but not very, because NP was open to the idea that computer technology could lead to useful media. He just didn’t get to experience much of it in his lifetime.

Now, we can experience him through it, which is a blessing in this time.

:-)

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#613

Post by danmaz74 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #585
danmaz74 wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people (luckily) perceive racism to be a bad thing. Being forced to publicly confess to being something you should be ashamed of is the definition of humiliation.

If it's true and uncomfortable it's still true.

My point is that public humiliation is much more likely to create resentment than to remove unconscious bias.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#614

Post by wizzwizz4 »

nailer wrote: post #486
jlokier wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because both sets of people were treated exactly the same by the system. I.e. inhumanely. FYI, they didn't lose the paperwork. UK gov destroyed the paperwork, then deemed people to be illegal migrants. Then those people were told: quit your job (or we'll force it), leave your spouse, move out of your home, and leave the country. Have 2 weeks notice because we're nice. Obviously with nowhere to go to. And because marr…

> UK gov destroyed the paperwork You're right. I quoted the parent but it's an important distinction. > Because both sets of people were treated exactly the same by the system. I.e. inhumanely. The destroying of paperwork was incompetence rather than inhumanity. The removal of illegal migrants is also not inhuman: it is lawful and reasonable - if you enter a country illegally, you may be kicked out.

You can “enter a country illegally” in an identical way to entering a country legally. Your entrance can be retroactively made illegal.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#615

Post by readarticle »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #430
readarticle wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not arguing whiteness will progress, I’m arguing against the idea there will be little shared ethnic background in California or Texas, and their “minority majorities”. That ~20% figure is repeated in California and Texas, while the Hispanic and Non-Hispanic white populations are almost perfectly equal in size. These populations intermix at very high rates powered on one side at least by very strong social forces…

Today, in California the percentage of white babies is ~27%. Today. How on earth can you possibly say that in 2098 that "a huge percentage of white babies ... will be white"? Are there any demographic studies that say this? Where are you getting this info from? Rarely do projections even go that far. Even US Census predictions have been off by huge margins within a few years because of unexpected declines in longevit…

And without even looking I can guarantee you the biggest percentage is Hispanic, not that far away from 27%, and heavily outweighing Asian and black figures that are once again combined under 20% alongside immigration flows from LA that have remained static for 20 years.

It isn’t white vs minorities, it’s white “vs” a roughly equally sized Hispanic population in a few states that are already being consolidated because immigration flows have tapered, and, party evidenced by the article you posted, easily integrated into “whiteness”. No progress needed!

Haven’t even gotten into how California and Texas are the definitions of special cases in the USA being literally the most attractive states in the Union and also on the border. What are the proportions like in Utah, Kentucky, Pennsylvania etc?

Simple flows + demographic history mate, regional history is one of the big keys here and points the way.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#616

Post by croon »

TMWNN wrote: post #495
croon wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but for unrelated procedural crimes discovered during the investigation The "unrelated" is completely false, which invalidates your entire argument. Name an American indicted for unrelated crimes and maybe I can fill in the connection. It's mostly covered in the wiki under each of their paragraphs though.

>It's mostly covered in the wiki under each of their paragraphs though. You're hoping that people won't bother to read said Wiki, or get confused by the legalese. Papadopoulos: Indicted for making a false statement to FBI. Manafort and Gates: Indicted for not registering as foreign agents of Ukraine (which, you might have noticed, is sort of an enemy of Russia right now) Flynn: Indicted for making a false statement t…

Papadopoulos: For lying about this: "In subsequent days Papadopoulos worked with Mifsud and Polonskaya to arrange contacts between the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Trump campaign. In late April 2016, Papadopoulos emailed an unnamed Trump campaign "Senior Policy Advisor," stating "The Russian government has an open invitation by Putin for Mr. Trump to meet him when he is ready." At about the same time, Mifsud told Papadopoulos that the Russian government had "dirt" on Hillary Clinton in the form of "thousands of emails," which Papadopoulos then shared with Alexander Downer in a London bar days later."

Manafort and Gates: If your defense is that since Ukraine is an enemy of Russia, and therefore there can't be any pro-Russian agents there, I have bridges to sell you.

Flynn: Yes, he lied about meeting Russian ambassador Sergei Kislyak about setting up encrypted channels to Russia.

Cohen: Lying about business developments in Russia (money is always a nice motivator in crime).

Stone: Had contact with Russian state hackers about the DNC hacks.

Donald Jr wasn't indicted for anything, but he managed to incriminate himself all on his own volition on twitter: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/d...

The most charitable interpretation of this whole thing is that the Trump campaign were too stupid to qualify as collusion (but I think they were fully aware), but were instead pawns: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-senate/s...

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#617

Post by StanislavPetrov »

shadowgovt wrote: post #274
pvaldes wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had to "confess" that I'm racist and promise to do better or it would have consequences for my career. So, basically inquisitor wannabees and pseudoscience cultists. Your colleague dodged a bullet. The idea that claiming that you are racist makes you not racist is totally gaga, random, and based in magical thinking, not in science. It only helps to hide in plain sight the real racists making much easier to admit…

The trainings I'm familiar with have the opposite intent: to help people who don't believe they are racists (or believe racism doesn't exist) understand the unconscious mental processes that feed into racism and the nature of structural discrimination, even when unintended.

>The trainings I'm familiar with have the opposite intent

The person who ties you to a stake and burns you alive to cleanse the devil from you can sincerely intend to save your soul, but what they are doing is still horrible. Intent is vastly overrated.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#618

Post by dragonwriter »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #430
readarticle wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not arguing whiteness will progress, I’m arguing against the idea there will be little shared ethnic background in California or Texas, and their “minority majorities”. That ~20% figure is repeated in California and Texas, while the Hispanic and Non-Hispanic white populations are almost perfectly equal in size. These populations intermix at very high rates powered on one side at least by very strong social forces…

Today, in California the percentage of white babies is ~27%. Today. How on earth can you possibly say that in 2098 that "a huge percentage of white babies ... will be white"? Are there any demographic studies that say this? Where are you getting this info from? Rarely do projections even go that far. Even US Census predictions have been off by huge margins within a few years because of unexpected declines in longevit…

> Today, in California the percentage of white babies is ~27%.

No, its much higher, probably 70-75%.

Its just that most sources, despite using source data that gathers race and ethnicity separately, combines them into a single dimension which reports non-Hispanic whites as "white" and Hispanics of any race as Hispanic.

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#619

Post by dragonwriter »

readarticle wrote: post #615
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, in California the percentage of white babies is ~27%. Today. How on earth can you possibly say that in 2098 that "a huge percentage of white babies ... will be white"? Are there any demographic studies that say this? Where are you getting this info from? Rarely do projections even go that far. Even US Census predictions have been off by huge margins within a few years because of unexpected declines in longevit…

And without even looking I can guarantee you the biggest percentage is Hispanic, not that far away from 27%, and heavily outweighing Asian and black figures that are once again combined under 20% alongside immigration flows from LA that have remained static for 20 years. It isn’t white vs minorities, it’s white “vs” a roughly equally sized Hispanic population in a few states that are already being consolidated becaus…

> And without even looking I can guarantee you the biggest percentage is Hispanic, not that far away from 27%

I dunno, 20 percentage points higher makes a pretty loose definition of "not far away".

Re: ‘Culture wars’ are fought by tiny minority – UK study

#620

Post by charlesu »

supernova87a wrote: post #601
charlesu wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harvard makes an effort to create a diverse class of students. That includes race but it also includes geography. Is Harvard excluding kids from New Jersey and New York because it goes out of it's way to admit kids from Nebraska and Montana?

Look, sir, friend, random person on the internet -- I'm likely not going to change your mind, and I'm not going to revisit this thread again after I click away, so take this just as one person to another giving some advice as if we were strangers talking to each other honestly with no consequences. Check yourself once in a while that you don't go falling the hole of deceiving yourself that you're right, using any cob…

> When someone lives in a certain state and applies to university, they have the opportunity to show their worth and skills by their achievements. When Harvard seeks to broaden their search for those people to new geographies, all to the better.

When is applies to university, they have the opportunity to show their worth and skills by their achievements. When Harvard seeks to broaden their search for those people to underrepresented minorities, all to the better.

I understand why the parallels make you uncomfortable. You’d need to ask yourself why you’re fine giving the kid from Montana a leg up. Better not to think about it.

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