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Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

reuters.com

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Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#571

Post by behnamoh »

maxehmookau wrote: post #359
xwdv wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you prove to people you are in a vaccine trial, do you have a card?

I have a "red alert" card so if I'm found unconscious a paramedic knows to contact the study team to find out if I'm in the control arm or I've had the active vaccine so they can rule out if it's important to why I was found unconscious! But it is just a piece of paper that the team printed out, and I think I lost it.

>> But it is just a piece of paper that the team printed out, and I think I lost it.

loses the single most important medical document that's going to save his life

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#572

Post by jacquesm »

neuronic wrote: post #555
Animats wrote: post #499

This is only one of 11 vaccines now in phase III efficacy tests.[1] Six vaccines already have "partial approval", but those are the ones in Russia and China, which may or may not be working, and the governments decided to try anyway. All of those provoke an immune response. Whether it's enough of the right immune response is found out in phase III testing. Something is probably going to work. The big question is how…

Not happening, recent polls suggest that in Germany, 55% percent of the population is willing to get the vaccine. That isn't enough for herd immunity (at around 60%) and real vaccination rate will be even lower. There is also no chance in hell that Germans will allow a government-mandated vaccine. It's unconstitutional and there is heavy opposition to government-mandated anything throughout all of society. So we will…

That problem will solve itself then.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#573

Post by turing_complete »

LatteLazy wrote: post #125
School-Cotton wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we let everyone get it in Q2 2020, millions would have died when we ran out of ventilators. How do you explain countries like Belarus, Serbia and Sweden, or parts of the US like South Dakota, where no or very lax measures were taken but what you describe didn’t happen? In fact, is there any evidence that this happened anywhere, or is it all just conjecture based on modeling?

Last I checked Sweden had 110k cases and 5.5k dead. That's an almost exactly 5% fatality rate. Compare that to neighbouring Denmark with 40k cases and 700 dead gives you a 1.75% fatality rate. Seems to me that there is good basic evidence right there for Sweden's approach being much more deadly. We can argue back and forth about the relative value of freedom vs lives or whether Denmark will ultimately have as many de…

Wow, that is just classic lying with statistics.

1. You cannot just rely on how many sick people happen to be tested. Every single serology study implies a IFR of well under one percent. I am willing to bet that it will end up between 0.1 and 0.6 % for any developed country.

2. You cherrypick your data if you compare Sweden with Denmark or Germany and not with France or the UK.

My hypothesis is that countries that protect the elderly, and especially nursing homes, well have much fewer deaths. In every country this is were the deaths are concentrated.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#574

Post by gnulinux »

dougweltman wrote: post #306
ageitgey wrote: post #69

A quick summary of were the Oxford vaccine stands since it's hard to follow: - When will the vaccine be ready? After the Phase 3 efficacy data is reported, assuming that the data shows that the vaccine prevents COVID or reduces COVID severity. This happens after enough people in the trial get sick with COVID. Then they unblind the groups and see if the people who got sick were in the control group or the vaccinated g…

>Early on, one person got symptoms consistent with typical vaccine side effects, but it was determined that the person had a previously undiagnosed, unrelated disease. Second, there was the highly publicized case where a patient suffered temporary spinal inflammation and recovered shortly. It is unclear if this event is related to the vaccine, ... This seems rather worrying as these Phase 1 and Phase 2 trials are pre…

Out of hundreds people picked random, it's not unlikely someone will have some undiagnosed health problem. People get diagnosed with new diseases all the time.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#575

Post by strictnein »

kuu wrote: post #346
strictnein wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you read 6-8 months between? I’ve just seen the timespan between shots be listed as 1 month almost everywhere.

I was basing the comment in some other vaccines - Sorry I did not state it. I hope I'm wrong and it's much shorter time :) Can you also share some of those sources you mention? Thanks!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/30/health/coronavirus-vaccine-tw...

> Two of those companies, Moderna and Pfizer, are now in Phase 3, large-scale clinical trials. The 30,000 volunteers in each of the trials are getting two doses, with Moderna spacing their shots out 28 days apart and Pfizer spacing theirs out by 21 days.

> AstraZeneca is expected to start Phase 3 trials this month. Their Phase 1 and Phase 2 trials used two doses given 28 days apart.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#576

Post by [deleted] »

lbeltrame wrote: post #538
aphextron wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's worth pointing out that during a pandemic, while participating in a trial does carry a risk, so does not participating. A participant has some substantially greater probability* than the general population of avoiding an infection which apparently carries a risk of death or long term debilitating effects. Participating also carries risks beyond simply that of the vaccine. Being exposed to any kind of healthcare…

FTR, most side effects appear (according to what Moderna published so far) only after the booster shot. So IMO you can't tell yet if you were given the vaccine or not.

[deleted]

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#577

Post by anthonyrstevens »

logicchains wrote: post #288
acdha wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A disease isn’t something you can solve by pretending really hard that it doesn’t exist. People getting their news from irresponsible politicians get sick like everyone else, and that’s why it won’t get back to normal before there’s a vaccine or very effective treatment: it’ll be the same cycle of open-spike-close and businesses not having enough customers to be viable.

>A disease isn’t something you can solve by pretending really hard that it doesn’t exist. This is demonstrably false. Some places are already back to life as normal, like Florida and Sweden, with no business closures. And in spite of this they still have lower deaths per capita than some places with heavy lockdowns like New York, Peru, Belgium and Spain.

Come on. Florida is not "back to normal". The health department is still advocating the full suite of social interventions for citizens, including masks & social distancing.

https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/prevention/

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#578

Post by BjoernKW »

neuronic wrote: post #555
Animats wrote: post #499

This is only one of 11 vaccines now in phase III efficacy tests.[1] Six vaccines already have "partial approval", but those are the ones in Russia and China, which may or may not be working, and the governments decided to try anyway. All of those provoke an immune response. Whether it's enough of the right immune response is found out in phase III testing. Something is probably going to work. The big question is how…

Not happening, recent polls suggest that in Germany, 55% percent of the population is willing to get the vaccine. That isn't enough for herd immunity (at around 60%) and real vaccination rate will be even lower. There is also no chance in hell that Germans will allow a government-mandated vaccine. It's unconstitutional and there is heavy opposition to government-mandated anything throughout all of society. So we will…

Well, the rest will become immune the natural way fairly quickly: By contracting the virus.

Once a vaccine is available and a large share of the population either has been vaccinated or has the opportunity to be vaccinated maintaining the current measures can't be justified anymore.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#579

Post by LeCow »

jacquesm wrote: post #572
neuronic wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not happening, recent polls suggest that in Germany, 55% percent of the population is willing to get the vaccine. That isn't enough for herd immunity (at around 60%) and real vaccination rate will be even lower. There is also no chance in hell that Germans will allow a government-mandated vaccine. It's unconstitutional and there is heavy opposition to government-mandated anything throughout all of society. So we will…

That problem will solve itself then.

You could make that argument without needing a vaccine.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#580

Post by harry8 »

jacquesm wrote: post #572
neuronic wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not happening, recent polls suggest that in Germany, 55% percent of the population is willing to get the vaccine. That isn't enough for herd immunity (at around 60%) and real vaccination rate will be even lower. There is also no chance in hell that Germans will allow a government-mandated vaccine. It's unconstitutional and there is heavy opposition to government-mandated anything throughout all of society. So we will…

That problem will solve itself then.

>That problem will solve itself then.

At a considerable cost. There's a large number of people for whom the vaccine won't work when it has been taken correctly or who cannot take the vaccine because it will react very badly with their chemotherapy or whatever.

This "let Darwin deal with the anti-vaxers" solution, though initially attractive, ends up being sociopathic when you dig into it.

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