Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#431

Post by judge2020 » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:43 PM UTC

chroem- wrote: post #418

RIMR wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing the abridging private organizations' right to free speech by congress... Twitter isn't the government, and they don't control speech anywhere but on the platform that they own. They could ban the American Flag and they still wouldn't owe anyone an explanation short of their stakeholders who are going to want to know how this factors into Twitter's only business: Selling ads.

> You are describing the abridging private organizations' right to free speech by congress... There is a large amount of legal precedent in the US for the government being able to compel speech of private businesses, both in laws and court rulings. If you don't believe me, go look at your nearest "nutrition facts" label. But we have precedents that go much deeper than that, up to and including compelled speech that g…

They're not unable, it's just not how the laws are structured currently - regulation is always an option. Nutrition labels weren't required pre-1990[0], but then regulation made them required, so you can look at the current amount of social media regulation as a result of the United States' governance over the past 20 years.

0: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209859/#_ddd00035_

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#432

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

tomschlick wrote: post #355

pat2man wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tabloid essentially make up stores, so I would say they fall into the "fiction" category. This story is essentially Russian propaganda designed to destabilize the US election. It's a whole different category of content.

The Director of National Intelligence (director for all US Intel Agencies) has said it is not Russian disinformation. https://twitter.com/i/events/1318222118421590016

[deleted]

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#433

Post by BurningFrog » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

vvillena wrote: post #69

bmarquez wrote: post #15

Twitter's lack of transparency is depressing. If they're going to lock the NY Post account, they should put a notification on the page (and perhaps a reason why). Right now if you go to the NY Post Twitter it just looks like they voluntarily decided to stop tweeting, which is misinformation.

As a counterpoint, Twitter as a company isn't forced to do any such thing, so if they think it can hurt its userbase and its revenue, it won't be done. Social media tries to establish a unique public forum, that gets policed by a single company. It's an unsustainable, doomed model. There's a reason the Internet as a whole is serviced by miriads of companies that are more or less forced to cooperate.

Since this ban is helping the Biden campaign by keeping a damaging story from being spread before the election, it can be seen as an in kind campaign contribution.

And for that there are some strict laws!

If the laws actually apply for this, I have no idea...

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#434

Post by anthonypasq » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

hamsterOnWheel wrote: post #410

RIMR wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing the abridging private organizations' right to free speech by congress... Twitter isn't the government, and they don't control speech anywhere but on the platform that they own. They could ban the American Flag and they still wouldn't owe anyone an explanation short of their stakeholders who are going to want to know how this factors into Twitter's only business: Selling ads.

>You are describing the abridging private organizations' right to free speech Many people and organizations have their free speech regulated because of the ability of speech to do harm (e.g. yelling "fire" in a crowded theater). Saying something trite about rights is not an argument. these companies have a huge responsibility to our democracy, and treating them as if they're just another company is exactly what allow…

why should we care whether its harmful to democracy?

if the population of a democracy doesnt want to be a democracy anymore, that seems perfectly legitimate

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#435

Post by judge2020 » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

bigbubba wrote: post #112

function_seven wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Google is different. They hold a monopoly on search that I think should be broken up. I have big problems with the power Google wields in finding things online. But, going back to my previous comment, it would in a way be a good thing if Google started capriciously "disappearing" sites like this, in a high-profile manner. It would accelerate the move to other search providers and bring a more diversified Internet…

The GP's Google example concerns thermostats, not search. Google doesn't have a thermostat monopoly. Is it therefore okay for Google to remotely deactivate the thermostats of people they've decided to dislike?

I wouldn't be surprised if they already block access to nest.com or related APIs for users either residing in, or with an IP locating them in a US-sanctioned country.

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#436

Post by awerawerawrjhui » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

wow_yes wrote: post #225

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or on the side that Twitter thinks is the good side.

We are on the right side of history - progress always is. People like me are much more trustworthy because we're not motivated by greed, but for the desire for a better world.

Every tyrant and dictator in history thought he was on the side of "progess" and was building a better world.

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#437

Post by oblib » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

I'll probably get down voted for pointing this out but neither Hunter or Joe Biden have denied those files are legit. And Biden's lawyer hasn't denied he called and tried to get the files back.

None of the reports I've seen casting aspersions on the legitimacy of the files have offered any proof they are not legit.

I think it's fair to say the messengers (Rudy and Bannon) are certainly motivated by personal and political gain but I don't think they're stupid enough to knowingly try to pass off forged documents to smear the Bidens.

So, with all that in mind I do find it queer that most all of the left leaning "News" organizations have focused on discrediting the legitimacy of the files without having any real evidence at all of them being forged or altered and for the most part I've not seen them reporting on what's in the files or alleged to be in them.

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#438

Post by ggreer » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

bleepblorp wrote: post #342

ggreer wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're less biased than most sources, but there are little things that are easy to notice. The Associated Press in 2015: "BREAKING: Obama sends $4 trillion spending plan to Congress, pledging help for middle class."[1] The Associated Press in 2018: "BREAKING: President Trump sends Congress $4.4 trillion spending plan that features soaring deficits."[2] If a news organization put "soaring deficits" in the Obama headl…

It's not clear why these choices in phraseology constitute bias when Obama's 2015 budget featured a deficit of 2.45% of GDP[0] while Trump's 2018 budget featured a deficit of 3.8% of GDP[1]. Factually speaking, Trump did blow up the deficit, and failing to report that, instead of reporting it, would be indicative of bias. Budgets requested by Republican vs Democratic administrations are different as the parties have…

Your years are off by one. Obama proposed the 2016 budget in 2015 and Trump proposed the 2019 budget in 2018. Though if you look up the numbers for those years, they're pretty similar.

I would agree with you, except the AP didn't criticize Obama's deficit increases compared to Bush. Pick a non-recession year in the Bush administration (like 2007[1]) and you'll see deficit spending half that of Obama's. That's despite wasting tons of money (and lives) warring in the middle east.

I don't want to go all "both sides" here. One side is certainly more worthy of criticism than the other. But considering the fraction of journalists who are on the left, it's not surprising that an ostensibly unbiased organization can still have some leanings.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_federal_bud...

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#439

Post by kitsunesoba » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #199

legitster wrote: post #91

What a hot mess. I am imagining those years of looking at terrible National Enquirer headlines at store checkouts. This kind of terrible reporting as always existed, but for some reason (luckily I guess) they never crossed over into national discourse the way that stories do online. I never begrudged the store for carrying them and selling them. If Wal-Mart suddenly felt the need to arbitrate on the accuracy of every…

It's all about how it's packaged. In the grocery store under a gossip magazine about who cheated on who, and people roll their eyes. The same lie being shared by everyone from your cousins to the president of the united states tends to be seen a little different to the eyes of people who prefer to defer their critical thinking capacities to whoever is the loudest and most charismatic.

Very well put. Social media wraps garbage with a false sense of legitimacy that's not found on checkout aisle shelves, and that's a big problem when such a large number of users lack either the skill or intention required to filter.

Re: Twitter still hasn't unlocked the New York Post's account

#440

Post by whimsicalism » Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

selectodude wrote: post #345

duxup wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"ZH was talking about coronavirus way earlier than anyone else" I've seen that claim too and found it questionable. Almost every major news outlet that would cover international news I found had some story about coronavirus pretty dang early. It wasn't a breathless story predicting the impact, but they covered it. I feel like most media "media does this" or "didn't do that" is mostly just what passed in front of some…

ZH was saying that it was going to be a catastrophe before China even started lying about how they had it under control.

> China even started lying about how they had it under control.

If you think China was lying about it, you should see the public statements of checks notes every head of state in the West.