Earlier quoted context omitted.
The international community could do a lot more to stop this horror. International leaders could condemn this for a start. They could put sanctions on the chinese ruling class, or Chinese businesses, as well as exclude Chinese participation in international events (such as the Olympics). Your local representative could raise awareness to such measures to the ruling class in your country, and vote in favor for them in…
Have sanctions ever worked? They haven't worked on Cuba. They haven't worked on Venezuela. They haven't worked on Russia. They haven't worked on North Korea. They haven't worked anywhere I can think of.
I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
441–450 of 627 posts
Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
#442Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
#443Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pay your taxes so that your military can keep an eye on the assholes who do this, and so that UN may offer some form of asylum to their victims. Vote for politicians that oppose this shit publicly. Explain to your kids why this is wrong.
> Pay your taxes so that your military can keep an eye on the jackwads who do this My taxes have frequently paid for US Gov led torture. If we ever hold China accountable in a meaningful way, it won't be due to authentic moral outrage.
The only reason we got mad about Vietnam, Cuba, South America is not because of "Communism" as an abstract concept. It's because the government seized or threatened to seize assets. See also Pinochet. We had no problem with him.
The reason why this is relevant to China is that China has made a lot of people a lot of money. So they commit a genocide every so often. As long as it doesn't cost American capital money, we'll ignore it.
Why were people so up in arms about Cuba, but not Ethiopia? Well, Cuba is much closer, true. But the real issue was that people owned stuff in Cuba. There was no significant interest in Ethiopia.
Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have my upvote, but honestly don't expect too much from UN. They are the ones who turned a blind eye to Rwanda and gave the guy who sold the guns a top job, aren't they?
What people criticize about the Rwandan genocide isn’t the lack of military intervention. It is the lack of any response from the international community (think the first decade of HIV/AIDS). No condemnation, no UN response, no relief of asylums for victims, and hardly any news.
On 11 January 1994, General Roméo Dallaire, commander of UNAMIR, sent his "Genocide Fax" to UN Headquarters.[108] The fax stated that Dallaire was in contact with "a top level trainer in the cadre of Interhamwe-armed [sic] militia of MRND." The informant—now known to be Mathieu Ngirumpatse's chauffeur, Kassim Turatsinze,[109] a.k.a. "Jean-Pierre"—claimed to have been ordered to register all Tutsi in Kigali. According to the memo, Turatsinze suspected that a genocide against the Tutsis was being planned, and he said that "in 20 minutes his personnel could kill up to 1000 Tutsis".[110] Dallaire's request to protect the informant and his family and to raid the weapons caches he revealed was denied.[110]
Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Pay your taxes so that your military can keep an eye on the jackwads who do this My taxes have frequently paid for US Gov led torture. If we ever hold China accountable in a meaningful way, it won't be due to authentic moral outrage.
Certainly nothing like this, and our practices in war have always stood out as more humane than the other side. People sometimes point to Afghanistan, but I don’t remember out guys beheading anyone.
This goes back to the debate between Augustine, a former good vs evil Manichean, and Pelagius. One believed that "everyone is bad" and warned against excessive hubris, while the other believed that those who choose to do evil do so out of their own free will.
In the pre-9/11 world, there was the idea that torture was a relic of the past, and we had made moral progress beyond such barbarities. But it was the leading liberal democracy in the world, rather than some third world dictatorship, that reintroduced the practice.
The United States trained the guerillas that eventually became the Vietcong in Vietnam, and the country went to war under the Gulf of Tonkin false flag. Similarly, the United States invaded Iraq under the WMD charade. In Afghanistan, it promoted the Islamist fundamentalism of the mujahideen, in order to fight the USSR friendly government that the Afghans themselves elected. The mujahideen became the Taliban, and a similar story of is true of ISIS and al-qaeda (US trained them to do their dirty work then lost control of them)
I don't think the United States is the root of all evil. But it's important to realise that the Chinese don't think of their country as an evil dictatorship, the same way that you don't view your country as "the bad guys". Rather, as St Augustine put it in his doctrine of original sin, we are all "the bad guys" and we need to reflect on the worse demons of our nature.
We have forgotten the Augustinian lessons, indulging in excessive pride and hubris, and failing to reflect on the same pattern that has been occurring cyclically for millennia.
Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
#447Earlier quoted context omitted.
> " ... if you think a CCP led world world order would be an improvement." I don't think the parent comment suggested anything like what you just said. And I agree with that parent comment, in that I find it amusing mental-floss to imagine how a very-low income family in the US can completely avoid Chinese made products.
I'm using "you" to refer to the reader, not the OP. English can be confusing at times.
and no "you" 'the reader' would be dumb enough to interpret the statement like you have. Communication can be confusing at times.
Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We can't do anything decisive to help the Uighurs without ripping apart Chinese sovereignty and causing even more collateral damage, so the best we can do is once again find our principles Yes we can. Boycott CCP controlled businesses, their manufactured goods and services. Ensure strict sanctions are levied on CCP members. Ban travel of CCP members to and from countries that respect the rule of Law. But nope. We w…
And for all the folks who are saying "well that doesn't work" do look at for instance international pressure on South Africa near the end of apartheid. Internal and external pressure in concert can have effect.
Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody is advocating genocide here. This is completely obvious, it is not his intention... you are exaggerating the situation. Who in their right mind would do this? And if you read his post it's obvious he is not doing this. The chinese actions are atrocious but an accusation of saying that holocaust level genocide is getting advocated here is a huge difference. You can tell him he's wrong because you believe that t…
> you are exaggerating the situation I am going off first hand accounts and confirmed facts. What are you doing? >The chinese actions are atrocious but "concentration camps are bad but.." No but. There's no but there. > holocaust level genocide No one said that. This is the logical fallacy you are committing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum > you believe that the chinese are conducting genocide. Red…
Genocide is a very serious accusation. The word is thrown around in this thread in a trivial way as if you can accuse anyone of advocating it. Let me spell it out for you: Pretty much no one advocates this. You're coming at him saying "I never said it was at holocaust levels" as if that makes a huge difference. This is mass human slaughter we're talking about.
He described it with the word "Holocaust" for two reasons. To detrivialize the usage of the word and because I've seen numbers being thrown around as if millions of people were exterminated.
>"concentration camps are bad but.." No but. There's no but there.
There is indeed a but. The US put the japanese in concentration camps in the past. This does not raise them to the same position as Hitler gassing the jews.
>I am going off first hand accounts and confirmed facts. What are you doing?
Confirmed facts of genocide? Show me some pictures. Show some proof. The seriousness of the accusation demands serious evidence.
>Reducing this to a "two sides" issue is shameless deflection. What part of the dozens of reporting done on Xinjiang do you think is false, and what facts are you basing that on?
He's reducing the issue to an "all sides" issue. Insulting an alternative view point is reducing it to a "one side" issue.
Let's keep things utterly clear here. It is completely wrong to build internment camps. Completely. But it is also completely and utterly wrong to silence another view point and accuse someone of genocide.
You don't solve an issue by attacking the people who created the internment camps without understanding the situation which caused them deploy such drastic procedures in the first place.
Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps
#450Not the first and won't be the last time this has happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony
Nayirah was propaganda.
Omir Bekali is in the unfortunate situation where when someone is abused, they will receive more help the worse their abuse which incentivizes exaggeration when people are at their worst.
But on a forum like HN where people simply don't understand the world even at a base level it's hard to know how to deal with these situations.
China needs to be stopped, so do you let these lies continue?