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I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

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Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#161

Post by lerptime »

nicoburns wrote: post #144
nendroid wrote: post #37

This is horrible. No doubt this is an allergic immune response to terrorism. The actions here on a different level than what's going on in Hong Kong, possibly because of this: "In July 2009, riots broke out in Xinjiang in response to a violent dispute between Uyghur and Han Chinese workers in a factory and result in over 100 deaths. Following the riots, Uyghur radicals killed dozens of Chinese citizens in coordinated…

What makes you think such actions are likely to quell terrorism. If anything I would think that this would radicalise the targeted population. The US response to 9/11 was stupid for exactly the same reasons.

I think such actions are done for the purpose of quelling terrorism. I think whether or not those actions will succeed is highly highly questionable. I also agree with you that radicalization is very possible.

That is not to say that as atrocious as these actions are, that they can't be successful. There are cases in history where the US has successfully assimilated a different culture. Basically the entire native american population has more or less been assimilated into US culture with some small vestiges of the old ways remaining.

I also agree with you that the US response is stupid for exactly the same reasons. However it is only stupid in retrospect. Bush sent troops into the middle east with the majority support of the American people. He lost that support later or aka the people regretted their emotional response in retrospect.

It is highly likely that if such terrorism attacks occurred on US soil again our reaction would be no different. Immediate armed response and only wisdom in retrospect.

Like the immediate negative response to my post, people react emotionally to situations. They never try to analyze the situation which is always much more complex than it actually appears.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#163

Post by TeaDrunk »

emteycz wrote: post #57
iaw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess would be politics. Congress in the US is democratically controlled while the Senate and Presidency are republican controlled. The current administration is fairly anti-Muslim and has ignored the Uighar issues entirely, the current administration likely told the State Department not to issue the visa.

What, visas are determined by politicians? Wow. That's like no rule of law at all!

Well, yes, politicians are the ones who choose the leadership of the branches of gov't, including the branch that decides on visas.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#164

Post by gambiting »

yeetman21 wrote: post #134
gambiting wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't, and it doesn't take much research to find out why. Any time the Nazis did it(like in Lvov) it took a huge amount of work to help with burrying/burning the bodies, Nazis didn't want to do it so they would conscript the local population, which was then likely to strike back as they knew exactly what would happen to them. If you told people you were "relocating" them they were far more likely to come peacef…

Completely false. The transportation and logistical requirement alone would have outweighed the costs of a mass grave or pyre.

Are you like....just saying what feels right without any historical research or background whatsoever?

The cost of a mass grave is that now the entire city knows you're killing people and you're coming for them. It leads to formation of resistance forces, kills your soldiers, stops the occupation from progressing.

Transportation is free because you took over the railways. Building concentration camps is free because it's done by literal slaves who have no choice anyway, and is done with local materials taken from existing housing. It's not like Nazis were paying market prices for any of this.

Like, I have no idea why were even arguing about this. Go and visit Auschwitz, it's all explained in the museum there. Read some books about occupations of Lvov or Warsaw - Nazis very quickly stopped executing people en-masse because it was more trouble than it was worth. You can say you disagree, but that's just arguing with facts.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#165

Post by DevKoala »

lerptime wrote: post #151
DevKoala wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing millions of people is not a proper response to and isolated terrorist act. Moreover you are trying to justify the suffering of people by using some hypothetical scenario that hasn’t occurred.

> Moreover you are trying to justify the suffering of people by using some hypothetical scenario that hasn’t occurred. I don't think he's justifying anything. He's questioning the nature of this world where a clear black and white decision is not always possible. He is saying in this case could there be No justifiable action possible? The hypothetical scenario is likely to help you empathize with the events from the…

You keep comparing apples to oranges in order to fabricate an argument. There is no systemic genocide perpetrated by the USA. Maybe if you believed in your argument you’d reply with your real account, not a green one.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#166

Post by baybal2 »

bleepblorp wrote: post #158
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can't do anything decisive to help the Uighurs without ripping apart Chinese sovereignty Breaking up a regime capable of doing monstrous things has been done before q.v. europe 1945 .

Unlike Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, China has nuclear weapons and is completely enmeshed into the world economy. Breaking up the Chinese government is not on the table.

What do you imply? WWII was fought by sticks, and stones in comparison to even cold war era weapons, and the combined death toll far, far surpassed the biggest estimate for a possible loss of life in a nuclear war in between Western, and Eastern bloc, even if each side would intentionally target each other's biggest cities.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#167

Post by dirtyid »

coldtea wrote: post #89

Here's the realpolitik deal, as I understand it. China doesn't really care about terrorism. What they do care for is a separatism movement. Not because they can't afford to give some land to those to make their own country, but because they fear that that country (or the population within China's borders if no country is created) will be used against them from foreign powers as a pressure point against China. Which i…

China's "Three Evils", terrorism, separatism, religious extremism.

Uyghurs tick all three, tibet only two. There's a reason Uyghurs are being interned en masse, where Tibet only gets heavy grid surveillance and policing. There were hundreds of terrorist attacks over the years causing thousands of death by Uyghur extremist in China, including one TianAnMen. Terrorism is by far the largest factor because the baseline guarantee by the state should be safety, so Beijing grossly overreacts, with full support of the masses. Not just the Han mind you, no one likes their planes hijacked or train stations knived.

>Money

The issue is you can't pay people to secularize. You have to brainwash. XJ is just repeat classic CCP political work + indoctorination + work camps. The dirty secret being that on balance, they work. Last I read China sunk 2.1 Trillion RMB / 300 Billion USD for the entire "security apparatus" in the region over the last few years. I mean I guess they could just cut every Uyghur a 200,000RMB / 30,000USD check and tell them to renounce Islam. Maybe you'll get some takers, but not the extremist, the primary group of concern, at the cost of pissing off 99.2% of the country. So we have education and vocational training and a little gitmo for recalcitrants.

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#168

Post by nerdtime »

Supermancho wrote: post #153
nendroid wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrorism is more than that. Terrorism is the use of violence, harm and killings to promote an ideological agenda. You're 100% percent correct. What China is doing fits the definition of "terrorism." My question is: Is is using terrorism itself as a means to an end to end terrorism worth it? Keep in mind that the US reaction to 9/11 can in itself be defined as terrorism for what it did to the other countries. War is…

> How could you not go to war? The American sentiment was the same at the time Respectfully, I disagree with the premise and the assertion. Everyone I know was confused about "going to war with Iraq" (again) which will always be at odds with responding to 9/11.

There is no disagreement here. Most people didn't agree with the Iraq war. He never said that his statement referred to the Iraq war.

Given the context, he's likely more talking about the immediate response following 9/11. Military action was highly supported following the events of 9/11. There was so much support, in fact, that the president now has the power to send troops to any part of the world without declaring war

Re: I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

#170

Post by toxik »

fuoqi wrote: post #125
birdyrooster wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has this ever been done successfully? It seems like the racial caste system they continue to build will blow back eventually.

All empires did it to varying extents and a lot of people got assimilated in the result. The outcome got cemented by creation of "nation states". Cherishing of cultural minorities is a relatively recent development.

Have you ever Googled “happy white woman”? Try with any other group. It’s pretty sad to see such a blatant... sabotage of positive white ideals.
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