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If you build a greenhouse around your outdoor dining area, is it an outdoor dining area any more?
Under UK law it wouldn't be, once the walls exceed 50% of the perimeter it's no longer classed as outdoor
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Same in NYC. It's so great to see the almost competition by restaurants to outdo each other in designing outdoor spaces. I really hope these changes stay permanently. My only gripe is that we haven't figured out the European style where all the seats face the road. :)
That’s mostly in Paris. Don’t think I’ve seen that elsewhere.
I don't really understand the point of this. Is outdoor dining and cold a new thing? Doesn't this happen every year at winter? Like someone paid money for this? >A report from Goldman Sachs Group Inc. indicated that 45F (7.2C) is the temperature below which demand for outdoor dining will collapse. (In a separate report, the company projected that outdoor dining demand would fall to 5% in December before rebounding in…
No restaurant that I can think of has outdoor dining in the winter. I live in Georgia, and our winters are fairly mild compared to northern states. Even so, outdoor dining in the wintertime is very uncomfortable. Winter is going to be very difficult for restaurants. If they don't adapt to serving meals outdoors, they may not survive. They're going to have to change a lot to create a comfortable environment for patron…
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I wish they'd close even a single street to car traffic in LA. A single one. Instead restaurants sprawl into the sidewalk and leave a little 2 food wide strip where you walk within spit fleck distance of dozens of maskless people eating and drinking and talking loud. I just look for a break in traffic to walk along the road or cross the street entirely.
Main street in downtown Culver City is closed -- for the single block it spans. It's something. It'd definitely be nice to see more of that elsewhere.
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Barcelona too.
Really? I’ve been there many times and have never noticed. Maybe it’s a newer trend?
Isn’t it crazy what people will do to preserve their way of life when it no longer makes sense and there are good alternatives? Not every food works as takeout, but it’s hardly a deprivation.
Closed streets and expanded outdoor dining is the best thing to come to SF during the pandemic, especially since the weather is mild enough that they can be utilized year-round. I really hope the city decides to extend them beyond December.
I wish they'd close even a single street to car traffic in LA. A single one. Instead restaurants sprawl into the sidewalk and leave a little 2 food wide strip where you walk within spit fleck distance of dozens of maskless people eating and drinking and talking loud. I just look for a break in traffic to walk along the road or cross the street entirely.
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Depends on how sealed it is. An actual greenhouse would not be. If the area is draughty and has a lot of air exchange it may actually be close to outdoors. A CO2 meter can give a quick approximation of whether the greenhouse canopy spacs is more like an inside or outside. My intuition was you’re right. But I could see it being the other way if it’s just a loose shield.
Following that logic, it seems indoors would also be fine if they open up a bunch of windows?
You can use a co2 meter as a proxy. Outdoor levels are generally around 450 in a city. If your indoor space with open windows is there, you’re probably basically outside. If it is higher, you’re not.
See here for example, co2 is a commonly used tracer gas: https://www.ghdonline.org/uploads/Measuring_Air_Changes.pdf
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To be clear. I think very few restaurants have enough windows to really be like outside with a bunch of people in there.
I had a look at the greenhouses. Key difference from indoor dining: they prevent superspreader events. The problem with indoor dining is you have 30+ unmasked people dining in a poorly ventilated room. One infected person can infect many others.
In a two person tent an infected person can infect at most their dining partner, assuming waiters are provided good sanitary measures.
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Deaths Per Million By State: 1. New Jersey - 183 2. New York - 172 3. Massachusetts - 142 4. Connecticut - 128 5. Louisiana - 124 These states have had some of the harshest restrictions. They've gotten worse results than the mixed approach for the rest of the country. Good case in point: Michigan vs Florida. Both have about the same deaths per million at 74 and 75 respectively. Yet Florida is fully open with no restr…
Worth noting that, in a large part, this is because Michigan has been dealing with Covid-19 for an extra 2 months compared to Florida. Since August, Michigan's per capita death rate has been less than half of Florida's. Yesterday, more than 100 people died of Covid-19 in Florida. That's more than died in New York State over the last 10 days, despite approximately similar populations.