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Debian donation for Peertube development

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Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#61

Post by mFixman »

feralimal wrote: post #16
richardARPANET wrote: post #12

IMO, PeerTube will never become popular due to its decentralized nature.

Centralised platforms have utterly failed us though, and have become a way to manage information centrally - someone decides what you can or can't see/read/know about. Decentralised is really the only option for an informed humanity. In the long run, this has to be the answer.

Even in the best case scenario where everyone starts using different instances of Peertube, won't it end like 2012 Reddit full of racist and paedophile instances?

You need a minimum amount of moderation to remove the least desirable groups of people from posting content.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#62

Post by Denvercoder9 »

ecmascript wrote: post #46
ivanche wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, there are no additional costs for the employer. On paper yes, but from where do you think those "additional costs" are paid? Right, from the value an employee creates.

In Sweden, what you get paid isn't really your full salary. Sweden has a hidden tax system called "arbetsgivaravgift" which only the employer can see. It's hidden and not labeled as a tax because it tricks people into believing you're paying less taxes than you actually do. So when you think you're paying ~32% income tax, in reality it's closer to 50%.

> It's hidden and not labeled as a tax because it tricks people into believing you're paying less taxes than you actually do.

That's some conspiracy bullshit. The first Google hit for "arbetsgivaravgift" gives the site of the Swedish IRS-equivalent, where it's both clearly marked as a tax and the exact percentage is given.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#64

Post by zo1 »

dewey wrote: post #57
zo1 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to look at the extreme examples and get widespread agreement, sure. The problem is in all the grey areas between benign, reasonable, controversial, factually-incorrect, manipulative and then "really bad" content. And the argument becomes even more moot when you consider that no one is "forcing" people to watch content that they don't like, they simply ignore it and heck the platform can just hide content yo…

> when you consider that no one is "forcing" people to watch content that they don't like, they simply ignore it Throwing something into the recommendation algorithm over periods of time or showing you ads will likely have an influence on you even if you wouldn't usually look at the content or search for it. Facebook itself already experimented with that in the early days of social media: https://www.theatlantic.com/…

One can block the channels on a per-user basis. And you can "personalize" recommendations to users to exclude channels or videos that are similar to ones they've previously blocked/excluded. Heck you can have curated block-lists that people can subscribe to. You can allow users to disable any non-subscription feed mechanisms so that the only way to find content is through search or other discovery mechanisms that may be external to the platform. There are so many different ways to solve the user-experience issue without deplatforming.

The more you peel back the superficial layers, the more you find that this is just about control as we "don't want to let people make their own opinions by finding content that we don't like".

Edit. Grammar.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#65

Post by feralimal »

ath92 wrote: post #58
feralimal wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you are saying it is a good thing that certain information is unavailable to you, and that you trust google, the government to do the job for you. I couldn't disagree more! My response would be, don't you think you can judge for yourself what is ok, and to not watch things that are nonsense? Also, aren't you concerned that you could be manipulated as you may be trusting authorities who - out of self-interest -…

I think it's important to realise that anybody can be influenced, even smart people who look at any information with healthy criticism. Unfortunately, the human brain is not without its problems. One of those problems is that information that is repeated often will start to "feel" true, even if it is false. If you want to read about these kinds of biases, I'd recommend the book Thinking, fast and slow by Daniel Kahne…

Yes. But do you mean to use conspiracy in a pejorative sense?

I think its pretty obvious that people 'breathe together' and formulate plans that work best for them. So with us, at the individual level, and so with those who have all the money and operate at the macro level. Are you saying that conspiracies don't happen? What is your method of finding the true ones?

The answer is that we require unfiltered information, and open communication with others. We need to personally engage in verifying claims. We can only confirm or deny whatever claims are made, if we have the information. If that is unavailable because of censorship we can only verify very little. This is where we are today.

As we can only verify very little, the problem is that we are not getting the information. Who is restricting information then? Is the world's leading, corporate-sponsored, search indexer (google), preventing the free flow of information? Well, yes it is. So we can say google is part of the problem, not the solution.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#66

Post by renke1 »

tpxl wrote: post #54
renke1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10k for the average developer (in Europe) sounds a bit too high, 4k a bit too low, but closer to what I would expect.

A lot of Europe is the balkans and the east where I'd be surprised if the average employer cost for a decent developer exceeds 2k/month.

True, I should have said most of Western/Northern Europe, I guess.

Edit: Actually, Europe is so diverse that any blanket statement is mostly worthless.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#67

Post by zo1 »

mtgx wrote: post #5

Anyone want to take bets that Google would eventually try to deprecate whatever API peertube needs because of some plausibly true "security reason" in the next few years?

Looks like it'll be pretty resilient in the basic case from an web/tech perspective. They fetch the video content using plain HTTP against a video file hosted on a URL, getting it in small chunks using HTTP range headers. That's as basic as you can get it.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#68

Post by zaarn »

viraptor wrote: post #59
zaarn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebRTC in Videochats usually employs 1:1 P2P, meaning everyone builds a peer connection to everyone else. So for N people you have N connections carrying your traffic M, so the total bandwidth is N M. For torrent P2P you get clusters of peers sharing data, you don't have to send data to every peer, the usual outcome is logarithmic, so you connect to log(N) peers for N participants with total bandwidth being log(N) M.

That's only because for video chats you need a full mesh in p2p. There's no requirement for that in webrtc itself which would be just the transport protocol in your case. You can also send only the selected chunks rather than stream the whole file.

But then you basically do what webtorrent already does, why reinvent it for no reason?

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#69

Post by magicalhippo »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #62
ecmascript wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden, what you get paid isn't really your full salary. Sweden has a hidden tax system called "arbetsgivaravgift" which only the employer can see. It's hidden and not labeled as a tax because it tricks people into believing you're paying less taxes than you actually do. So when you think you're paying ~32% income tax, in reality it's closer to 50%.

> It's hidden and not labeled as a tax because it tricks people into believing you're paying less taxes than you actually do. That's some conspiracy bullshit. The first Google hit for "arbetsgivaravgift" gives the site of the Swedish IRS-equivalent, where it's both clearly marked as a tax and the exact percentage is given.

But the employee does not see it on their pay slip, unlike the regular taxes and pension. So when people (aka employees) talk about taxes it is rarely mentioned. In that regard it is a hidden tax.

My boss told me he when thinking about our pay he considers the expense to the company to be about 2x what we get paid (pre-tax). So that's the "arbetsgivaravgift" (we got the same thing here in Norway) and pensions on top of our salary.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#70

Post by ziml77 »

TheCapeGreek wrote: post #26
john4532452 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why ? What are the premises that leads to your conclusion ?

Not OP, but having tried PeerTube just to see what it was about, just the usability is a pain. There's a lot of foreign language content that clogged up my front page and I'm not even in Europe for some elementary locale checking to try and match content. Then of course, decentralised streaming in this way is incredibly slow and has the same pitfalls as torrents: If there aren't any/enough peers you're screwed or jus…

Having no peers with the content you are looking for is the worst problem. Unpopular videos will just disappear.
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