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Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

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Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#441

Post by eru »

dheera wrote: post #348
ashtonkem wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like you, I am genuinely baffled by "WFH 4 days a week" arrangements (as compared to "WFH when you have errands that make it necessary", which is pretty common). If I have to come into the office 1 day a week, then I still have to foot the bill for a home office within driving range of the office, which sucks. I think at once a quarter you're starting to look at the ability to live on the other side of the country an…

Hypothetical question: What if it was WFH 4 days a week but the company foots (a) the difference between your rent and the median rent for the square footage of your living space in the country you live in, upto some reasonable limit, AND (b) all of your home office equipment and furniture?

That sounds pretty complicated and bureaucratic. Why not just draw a salary?

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#442

Post by aranelsurion »

scatters wrote: post #255
aranelsurion wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this expectation really strange. It's like 'violence in games', if you refer to it everyone will nod, but how it became such a widely accepted fact is at best unclear. I'm sure some cases of it happened somewhere, there are some papers, and some appeal to authority is a given, but do we really know if WFH equals mental health issues en masse? For example, I wonder if: long commute, all the preparation before/a…

> What about constant interruptions, loud neighbours and that white light above you, even though you'd rather have it yellow? All the inconveniences of sharing a place with other people, wouldn't any of this take a toll? Are you describing working in an office or working from home?

Depends on which office, and whose home we're talking about.

It's not my goal to shoot your anecdote with my own.

My post above is more about the tendency to focus on WFH as a mental health tragedy, while WFO is never held under this scrutiny. Is it possible that herding millions into offices [of various quality] had no major impact on mental health? Yet it's called an apocalypse when opposite becomes a trend.

One's "mental health apocalypse" is another's relief from pressure. If you often hear one angle maybe it's now becoming a chant rather than rational discourse.

Maybe we can do better than approaching this from that one specific angle, and consider both as valid options. Leave the people with choice, and let them pick whatever is best for them. [1]

[1] My anecdata shows most people given the choice pick their homes or places they like over the office, and offices nowadays are almost empty. But obviously it's anecdata, doesn't mean "everyone" wants it that way (they don't) and YMMV.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#443

Post by b112 »

jarjoura wrote: post #180
kris-s wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you are in dire need of a break!

You're telling me!!

Heh, an amusing thought.

If you've watched Red Dwarf, the entire reason that Rimmer was brought back as a hologram, was so that Dave would not go insane.

And another crew member could have been brought back, but Holly determined that Rimmer would be best. The conflict, you see, was required.

Many here decry the "waste of time" of being interrupted. Their attention divided. Yet you're indicating that after a few months of endless, day long shifts free of interruption, productivity has dropped a bit.

It appears for some, Holly was right. You need a Rimmer.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#444

Post by sylens »

puranjay wrote: post #31

As someone who has worked from home for a decade, I predict a mental health apocalypse in the near future. Working from home permanently requires support infrastructure not everyone has access to. It also requires a different approach to work altogether which, again, not everyone is capable of adopting. If you have family, work from home is great. But if you're single, staying cooped up alone at home can be a disaste…

I'm not so sure about that. "This" WFH situation we are now in is very different from what a normal remote-only situation would be like after COVID times are over. People are at their wit's ends right now because they cannot do many of the things outside of work that they used to do. If you have a small child, you used to be able to take them with you on errands and impromptu meetups with other parents and families to break up the day and entertain them.

Now, many people carefully plan out these occasions to make sure they're not bringing anything back home to their own family members. The same can be applied to childcare and even senior care. In normal times, you wouldn't have your kids home all day to interrupt you and require help with schoolwork (or even logging into Zoom).

Additionally, I've found the hardest part of this year is that there just isn't much to look forward to on the weekends - no big group dinners to celebrate birthdays, no vacations to other cities, no bar nights with old friends.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#445

Post by tinyhouse »

ck425 wrote: post #440
tinyhouse wrote: post #134

I would love to see a chart showing number of applications they receive before this announcement and after. I'm guessing they gonna be swamped with resumes today. It was clear that it's going to be a domino effect. Each time another tech company moves to permanent WFH it puts more pressure on other companies to do the same. They wouldn't be able to compete for talent otherwise. FANNG can still compete without moving…

I think the effect will reverse after a while. Sure a lot of folk want remote jobs but there'll also be plenty of folk at Dropbox and following companies who want an office and will start looking elsewhere following covid.

I don't think so. Dropbox are not closing the office (they will likely downsize) so folks who want can still go in if they live nearby. I'm sure most companies would keep some office space available. Also, I'm sure most fully remote companies would pay their employees for home office expenses, which includes co-working space if an employee prefers that. (most people don't have an extra room available for office). By co-working space I mean a dedicated space where you can leave your laptop, monitor, etc. It's not like going to an actual office where your co-workers are, but the big advantage is the commute. Co-working spaces are everywhere so you can pick one close to you.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#446

Post by UncleMeat »

ryanSrich wrote: post #199
headmelted wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture" This is stated as fact everywhere but I've not seen supporting evidence anywhere. I spend about as much time in my day speaking to other people as I would have done productively and by choice before. The only difference now is that I'm more able to avoid extraneous meetings and other drags on my time that don…

> Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture The people who say this are the people you never see doing any work. They use the office as a social gathering place. They seemingly have no real job, despite a lofty title and high salary. They are the bane of existence for high functioning employees. This is one of the few hills I will die on. I've never he…

Hi there. I’ve been promoted at a rate in the fastest 2% of engineers at my company. WFH is okay for me but I hugely prefer in person.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#447

Post by ck425 »

tinyhouse wrote: post #445
ck425 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the effect will reverse after a while. Sure a lot of folk want remote jobs but there'll also be plenty of folk at Dropbox and following companies who want an office and will start looking elsewhere following covid.

I don't think so. Dropbox are not closing the office (they will likely downsize) so folks who want can still go in if they live nearby. I'm sure most companies would keep some office space available. Also, I'm sure most fully remote companies would pay their employees for home office expenses, which includes co-working space if an employee prefers that. (most people don't have an extra room available for office). By…

> It's not like going to an actual office where your co-workers are

Exactly. That's what I miss and there'll be folk at Dropbox who miss it too. For folk who live in cities and/or don't mind commutes they might give serious consideration to moving to a company with a traditional office.

I know personally that if post covid my organisation scraped the office or if enough folk WFH permanently that it was dead, I'd start looking for a new job

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#448

Post by thebean11 »

renewiltord wrote: post #293
thebean11 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd never even consider paying for an IDE I need for work. Why would a company not buy me software that has a direct and immediate impact on my productivity? Huge red flag.

All of these things are productivity improvements. And I'm sure any company would buy them if I cared, but $200? It's a rounding error. And it liberates me from any choices they'd make.

IntelliJ Ultimate is $500 for a commercial license I believe (and you need a commercial license to do work for a company over a certain size, even if you pay for it yourself). Sure it's not going to affect my finances either way but:

1. The 2 minutes it takes to file an expense report is a good trade for $200 (I don't make $6,000 an hour at my job)

2. It's the principle; they should pay for it, not me.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#449

Post by haswell »

varispeed wrote: post #432
haswell wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for highlighting this. As others have said, I could not agree more. As a Product Manager, working remotely 100% of the time is absolute hell. And I say this as someone who was already working from home ~70% of the time before (and I was mostly ok with that). I also wanted to pick on a few of the categories you mentioned: > "only incompetent managers need to see you in person" Some of the best work I've done…

> Some of the best work I've done is when I'm able to go brainstorm in a room with my leadership. That suggests you and your team have communication issues and meeting in person is just a plaster over it. Why exactly do you need to see other team members in person? > I have to feel bad for people who have never experienced true friendship at work Why do you think getting friendly with people at work is appropriate? M…

> That suggests you and your team have communication issues and meeting in person is just a plaster over it.

That's an interesting conclusion. What makes you believe that?

Would you say the same thing to a band trying to practice together...virtually/remotely? Why or why not?

> Why exactly do you need to see other team members in person?

I covered this in another comment under this thread.

> Why do you think getting friendly with people at work is appropriate? Mixing work and personal life will introduce unconscious bias and you will give different treatment to people who didn't invite you to their weeding. This is bad for business.

I see you're intentionally being snarky about my typo.

But on topic - again, I ask, what makes you believe that? There are plenty of studies and psychologists who would disagree with you. Go read some of the articles on Harvard Business Review that explore the dynamics of friendship at work, and how important / rewarding they can be.

> It seems like you just feel lonely and you use workplace to find friends. Can you see how wrong that sounds?

I'm not lonely. I'm also an introvert. But when friendships form, it's a beautiful thing.

Why do you believe this to be so "wrong"?

It's a simple matter of simplicity and practicality. I'm more likely to meet like-minded people in the workplace, and those people aren't necessarily even on my team or even in the same department.

As I mentioned in my parent comment, I do feel bad for people who have not had a chance to experience this - it seems you fall into that category.

> Did you think about finding a hobby, getting good at something other than work and meet people that way? (there is plenty of meetups for people sharing the same interests)

Of course! And I do those things, too. But my hobbies tend toward solitary activities (cycling, tinkering with electronics, coding side projects). Yeah, I meet interesting people at the local Raspberry Pi enthusiasts meetup, but rarely people I'll form close friendships with.

---

Friendship at work might not be right for you. But don't mistake that with it being "wrong" or "inappropriate" for everyone.

I'm genuinely curious (and feel free not to reveal anything you aren't comfortable sharing), but I really wonder if age/geo/length of career factor into this.

Often, the mindset you're promoting seems to come from a lack of maturity and understanding of the importance of relationships in the workplace. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case for you, personally but I'm genuinely curious to understand where you're coming from when there's so much evidence to the contrary.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#450

Post by wffurr »

ponker wrote: post #350
wffurr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethernet setup - do you hire techs and electricians to run cabling? The biggest issue with me for WFH has been the quality of my internet connection and it was entirely on me to get Comcast to come fix my lines and run my own ethernet to my basement "office".

If you intend to work from home then of course hire an electrician (or low voltage contractor, don't even need an electrician) to run an Ethernet cable! If you won't invest $500 in your WFH setup you're missing the forest for the trees.

The company should be the one hiring the electrician / wiring contractor.

Also, joy, hiring contractors. My favorite thing to do with my time.

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