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Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

businessinsider.com

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Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#131

Post by leetcrew »

geerlingguy wrote: post #23
jopsen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somehow don't feel sorry if overpaid tech workers, like me, have to buy a desk and chair. It's not like you need new office furniture very often.

I tend to think of the junior engineers, who might not have a ton of disposable income. In the before times, they would be put at a workstation with a $2-3000 desk, a $500+ chair, reliable Internet and power, and usually a new(ish) computer, monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Those engineers don't have the income to get all those pieces for home use; they'll get a cheap Ikea desk and chair, a middling-quality monitor and…

you don't need a $2-3000 desk just to hold a computer and some monitors. you can get a large desk with electronic height adjustment from ikea for about $400.

I'm a junior engineer and I already happen to have a nice chair, computer, and monitor at home. my desk is a piece of trash from walmart, but it gets the job done. altogether, it's about $3500 worth of stuff if bought new. I wouldn't be happy to pay for all that in one go for work, but it wouldn't be an extreme hardship either. I would gladly pay that in exchange for permanent WFH.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#132

Post by tidepod12 »

leetcrew wrote: post #111
tidepod12 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>co-workers aren't friends, bosses aren't friends, clients aren't friends, work relationships aren't friends. It really saddens me whenever I see this (apparently common) sentiment on HN. Through every job I've had, I've met some of my very best life-long friends. My wedding party is over half people that I met at work. A couple of my former bosses are people I see every couple of months (pre-covid) and are invited t…

HN takes it a bit too far, but there is some wisdom in maintaining a boundary between work and personal stuff. like suppose you are struggling to recover from alcoholism. you might want to confide in your close friends. you might not want to share this with friends from work. you almost certainly should not share this with your boss, even if you consider them a friend. I treat work friends as a sort of "probationary…

>like suppose you are struggling to recover from alcoholism. you might want to confide in your close friends. you might not want to share this with friends from work. you almost certainly should not share this with your boss, even if you consider them a friend.

I would absolutely share this with my "work friends" and even my current boss. When one of my previous bosses shared with me that he was having trouble at home with his spouse, it wasn't like he suddenly became a bad boss. If anything, it helped our work because it gave me the opportunity to be more understanding when he seemed more worn out or needed to leave early for the day to go spend time with his family. If he had told me he was struggling with drinking, then I would know that maybe we should go play sports rather than to our weekly happy hour. We build each other up, both inside and outside of work, because that's what friends do, and it has the nice side effect of making our professional careers better, too.

Perhaps I just have had a lucky stream of working on unicorn teams, but I would hate to work at a company where I couldn't share details of my life with the people that I spend 40-60+ hours a week with. Obviously every workplace and relationship is unique and you aren't going to share everything with everybody (I'd share the above details with my current boss but by no means with all of my bosses), but I don't understand this attitude that you shouldn't share anything with anyone that happens to have a common employer.

To me, work is just another facet of our relationship alongside the many other facets, no different than if we had met through volunteering or went to the same gym. I don't share everything with every coworker, just like I don't share everything with every other person that visits my gym. But I also don't shy away from sharing things with someone just because they are my coworker, just like I wouldn't shy away from sharing things with someone just because they also use the same weight set that I do.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#133

Post by karmasimida »

headmelted wrote: post #124
dhouston wrote: post #33

To be clear (if you only read the headline :)), not entirely remote. Solo work at home, collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture; and ad hoc "WFH whenever you feel like it" ge…

"Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture" This is stated as fact everywhere but I've not seen supporting evidence anywhere. I spend about as much time in my day speaking to other people as I would have done productively and by choice before. The only difference now is that I'm more able to avoid extraneous meetings and other drags on my time that don…

What evidence do you seek?

It is obvious to me that the way you interact with people face-to-face is different from the way you would do with online chat.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#134

Post by tinyhouse »

I would love to see a chart showing number of applications they receive before this announcement and after. I'm guessing they gonna be swamped with resumes today.

It was clear that it's going to be a domino effect. Each time another tech company moves to permanent WFH it puts more pressure on other companies to do the same. They wouldn't be able to compete for talent otherwise. FANNG can still compete without moving to permanent WFH because of their reputation, salary and benefits, and the fact they have offices everywhere. But most companies cannot.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#135

Post by csunbird »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #27
geerlingguy wrote: post #7

WFH saves money for the company, I just hope that some of the expensive (to the company) perks like prime real estate, free meals, exercise programs, etc. can be translated into at least a minimal budget per employee of: Internet connection reimbursement, annual budget for workspace improvements (ideally with a large initial budget, like $1000 or more for desk, monitor, chair, etc.), and possibly some other perks. Bu…

Wouldn't it be easier to compensate for these costs via salary increases? Not everyone will have the same needs, and attempting to track everyone's expenses seems more complicated than necessary. Although, come to think of it, it might make sense to mark some amount of money as an "equipment stipend" or similar on paychecks. That way, it's clear to both parties what the funds are intended for, even if there's no actu…

Well companies are actually trying to do salary cuts instead.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#136

Post by mmm_grayons »

dhouston wrote: post #33

To be clear (if you only read the headline :)), not entirely remote. Solo work at home, collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture; and ad hoc "WFH whenever you feel like it" ge…

> collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role.

Doesn't this also have the problem with neither flexibility nor community, especially for once a quarter? More importantly, this means that people now have to maintain their own home offices but still have to live close to a big city and pay the stupidly high costs associated with that.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#137

Post by pimterry »

geerlingguy wrote: post #7

WFH saves money for the company, I just hope that some of the expensive (to the company) perks like prime real estate, free meals, exercise programs, etc. can be translated into at least a minimal budget per employee of: Internet connection reimbursement, annual budget for workspace improvements (ideally with a large initial budget, like $1000 or more for desk, monitor, chair, etc.), and possibly some other perks. Bu…

Interestingly, Spain has already started on regulating to handle this. An english-language writeup: https://english.elpais.com/economy_and_business/2020-06-26/f...

In short, for remote working employees (any employee that spends >30% of their time working outside an employer-designated office/client site/etc over 3+ months), all employers must have a written contract with the employee, that must:

* Define the tools & workspace necessary to provide a sufficient & safe workspace, for which the employer must cover any costs

* Define working hours (with some requirements on flexibility)

* Be voluntary, in both directions (employers can't fire people who don't want to change to remote work, employees aren't entitled to remote work if employers don't agree)

* Detail how, if at all, the employee's productivity might be monitored, and do so with reasonable regard to privacy and ability to disconnect from work

* Ensure equal treatment of on-site & remote employees, including pay, job stability, promotions, etc.

There's some caveats in there for force majeure, such that this doesn't immediately apply for the unavoidable remote setups created by COVID, but will apply for ongoing remote work where that continues in future.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#138

Post by thebean11 »

renewiltord wrote: post #63
svrtknst wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a bad precedent when workers pay the company they're working for

Is it, though? I've always brought my own tools - my Aeron, my preferred high-refresh monitors, a Linux dev machine where possible, my monitor arms, my IDE. I have a good setup. I know it works. It's not as feasible to get my own standing desk in each time so I let that go. But they always give me everything and I just set them aside and use my (superior) tooling. I don't think that's paying the company. That's just…

I'd never even consider paying for an IDE I need for work. Why would a company not buy me software that has a direct and immediate impact on my productivity? Huge red flag.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#139

Post by greymalik »

dhouston wrote: post #33

To be clear (if you only read the headline :)), not entirely remote. Solo work at home, collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture; and ad hoc "WFH whenever you feel like it" ge…

> ad hoc "WFH whenever you feel like it" gets a sort of worst-of-both-worlds situation where you neither get the same kind of flexibility nor the sense of community you typically get from an office

Can you explain what you mean by WFH when you feel like it reducing flexibility?

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#140

Post by mattsofatso »

fatnoah wrote: post #85
puranjay wrote: post #31

As someone who has worked from home for a decade, I predict a mental health apocalypse in the near future. Working from home permanently requires support infrastructure not everyone has access to. It also requires a different approach to work altogether which, again, not everyone is capable of adopting. If you have family, work from home is great. But if you're single, staying cooped up alone at home can be a disaste…

>If you have family, work from home is great. Hah, I feel the opposite. Having my family at home is what makes WFH unbearable. I'm constantly exposed to the stress of getting a child through the hybrid learning school schedule. I get absolutely no quiet time or alone time during the day, whereas my office has many quiet places for me to clear my mind for a few minutes.

For some, WFH means Wait For Help.
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