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Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

hyperallergic.com

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Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell the original article doesn't actually answer this. It assumes that the breakages are man-made (or restricts itself to only talking about those that are man-made) and then goes on to explain the breakages through that lens. Of course the explanations of those breakages are in turn at least some evidence that those breakages are indeed man-made, but the article doesn't go into explaining what propo…

>or restricts itself to only talking about those that are man-made The author probably did that because those are the only breakages which are interesting. Erosion is interesting in its own way, but the reasons why people do things have a much wider audience.

Yes that's true. However, I view the author's conclusions about why certain damages occurred as being fairly weak.

Most strikingly none of the primary sources in the article actually describe the action of breaking a nose. More generally, none of the quotes actually describe any of the exact purposes that the article infers, e.g. the breaking a nose so that the spirit cannot breathe or breaking the arms so that the spirit cannot receive an offering.

All of this is instead inferred from passages supporting or warning against general defacement as well as post-hoc examination of damage on various statues.

You would hope that if this was a widespread and officially sanctioned practice and given generations of defacement and destruction, somewhere someone recorded "yes I cut off this statue's nose to make sure that the spirit could not breathe" or the equivalent with some other body part and spiritual function and yet this article at least has no such quote.

Of course history is full of gaps and thus it is not entirely unsurprising that there might not be literature describing this even if it were fairly widespread. Nonetheless, its lack makes me quite suspicious of the confidence in which the author describes his very specific conclusions on why certain body parts were damaged the way they were. (The most well-supported one I see so far is the thing with arms and offerings, although that depends heavily on how prevalent it is, e.g. whether this pattern holds for almost all one-armed statues, which the author suggests is true, but I'm curious about the overall stats on that)

EDIT: My suspicions have only increased after my searches on the Internet on this subject all seem to trace back to this Pulitzer Foundation exhibition. Anybody have any other sources to support the specific relationships between destroyed body part and destroyed spiritual function (e.g. no nose so can't breathe) as described in this article?

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#112
post #101

I have always assumed they were defiled according to Muslim strictures on life representations. Is that falsifiable? We would need someplace Muslim thought held sway but they aren't broken, and places where it never penetrated and they are all broken anyway. None of that would conclusive in isolation. You would need a lot of data; or records of fatwas issued demanding it.

They were broken centuries before Islam, or even Christianity.

Breaking or disfiguring the nose is a common punishment trope throughout human history. Perhaps this is because the nose is one of the most exposed and accessible organs on the body if one seeks to damage someone mortally, and it is also core to many cultures' concept of beauty and power, so disfiguring it destroys the target in social dimensions also.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#113
post #92
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression - not having studied much about Jaynes' theory - that it is a well-regarded but falsified theory. That being said, what you describe sounds like an amazing premise for a novel.

The most obvious refutation is that according to Jaynes' theory conciseness emerged just a few thousand years ago. Since humans took divergent paths across the globe over a hundred thousand years ago, this raises the question of how all humans developed consciousness independently and simultaneously - unless you think that consciousness is spread in a sort of memetic fashion, in which case you are asserting that abor…

Jaynes argument makes a lot more sense when you take the modern psychiatric view that the way we respond to voices in our head is socially constructed. His claim that it is literally caused by the corpus collosum was bad biology (which was not his field).

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#114
post #76
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the academy's amazing tap dance to obscure simple but inconvenient facts. Love it.

I feel like I'm being concise. Blackness is a designation of political expediency. It's not a genetic distinction. HN commenters routinely confuse this point. Ergo, this is a poor topic for us to discuss. You seem to be hinting at something scandalous; please do be upfront.

Bro, I'm tenure track, I speak fluent nonsense, do your thing, it's all good.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#115
Observed the same thing on Hindu idols in Telangana as a child. My dad had a pretty simple guess/answer.

The nose is simply the most common point of impact when you strike a face from up-front(human or idol). A face is probably likely to be the most common target when raiding.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#116
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression - not having studied much about Jaynes' theory - that it is a well-regarded but falsified theory. That being said, what you describe sounds like an amazing premise for a novel.

The excellent novel "Snow Crash" was directly inspired by "The Origin of Consciousness": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash

Another fictional investigation of bicameral minds are two novels in the Firefall series by Peter Watts.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#117
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The excellent novel "Snow Crash" was directly inspired by "The Origin of Consciousness": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash

That novel looks amazing, and it's going on my reading list. Thanks!

Check also Peter Watts Firefall series.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#118
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most obvious refutation is that according to Jaynes' theory conciseness emerged just a few thousand years ago. Since humans took divergent paths across the globe over a hundred thousand years ago, this raises the question of how all humans developed consciousness independently and simultaneously - unless you think that consciousness is spread in a sort of memetic fashion, in which case you are asserting that abor…

Jaynes argument makes a lot more sense when you take the modern psychiatric view that the way we respond to voices in our head is socially constructed. His claim that it is literally caused by the corpus collosum was bad biology (which was not his field).

> the way we respond to voices in our head

Voices plural? I doubt most of society experiences such a phenomenon, and if they do they’re not talking about it.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. All I know is what I overheard a tour guide telling her group when I was there. But it makes sense, because I saw the same thing at all of the Christian churches I visited in Turkey.

Such iconoclasm is certainly not unique to Islam. Many older Christian churches in the UK saw their crucifixes, statues and stained-glass windows defaced by Puritans, out of belief that Catholic symbolism was idol worship rather than any superstition about the crucifixes having any actual power

Going even further back, the issue of idolatry was a major point of conflict in the early days of the Orthodox Church.
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