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Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

hyperallergic.com

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Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#81
post #48

In "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind", Julian Jaynes argues that before human intelligence was experienced as reflective, self-conscious internal monologue, early humans would routinely experience "command hallucinations" which they ascribed to gods[0]. In a setting that was designed to induce awe, reverence and altered states of consciousness, an idol could prompt believers to hallu…

I was under the impression - not having studied much about Jaynes' theory - that it is a well-regarded but falsified theory. That being said, what you describe sounds like an amazing premise for a novel.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. All I know is what I overheard a tour guide telling her group when I was there. But it makes sense, because I saw the same thing at all of the Christian churches I visited in Turkey.

As a Muslim, I can confirm we only do it because we reject idol worship and the visual depiction of any living being, particularly prophets. We dont believe in any power being present in statues. Just wanted to let you know :)

It doesn't justify the destruction of historical artifacts, though. :/

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#83
post #71

I once took an Africana Studies course at UMass Boston and the professor taught us that the noses were broken off the statues due to the hatred of black peoples by white explorers over millennia. She also taught us that the ancient Egyptians were black and that it was black people that built the pyramids. When I innocently asked her why the slides she showed us seemed to show Egyptians as having more middle eastern a…

We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway. Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and th…

Have you considered that showing up to a thread and saying everyone else is too stupid to understand whatever you’re trying to share, then being surprised that your comment goes over poorly, seems like the real manifestation of ignorance?

In any case, don’t do this here. If you have something to say, be straightforward about it and don’t insult your readers.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#84
post #71

I once took an Africana Studies course at UMass Boston and the professor taught us that the noses were broken off the statues due to the hatred of black peoples by white explorers over millennia. She also taught us that the ancient Egyptians were black and that it was black people that built the pyramids. When I innocently asked her why the slides she showed us seemed to show Egyptians as having more middle eastern a…

We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway. Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and th…

Someone got GPT3 to output grievance studies parlance I see. That is to say that this post is identical to the nonsensical gibberish that machines currently output.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#85
post #74

It's a shame that there don't seem to be any primary sources from Christians of that time explaining that practice. I would imagine that the Desert Fathers would have mentioned it at some point (if it happened in their time), but perhaps they weren't aware. Since this practice doesn't seem to be a part of Christianity elsewhere, it seems like it could something unique to a coptic interpretation of scripture. I'm not…

TFA quotes Augustine on this, but no idea how much he said.

It doesn't quote enough context to even clarify if he recommended damage, or whether he was mocking the people doing the damage.

EDIT: found a larger quotation. From the context, the use of the quote in TFA looks like a misrepresentation of what Augustine said, since it doesn't sound like he was offering an opinion on whether or not it should be done.

https://books.google.com/books?id=z5ufDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT91&lpg=P...

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#86
post #74

It's a shame that there don't seem to be any primary sources from Christians of that time explaining that practice. I would imagine that the Desert Fathers would have mentioned it at some point (if it happened in their time), but perhaps they weren't aware. Since this practice doesn't seem to be a part of Christianity elsewhere, it seems like it could something unique to a coptic interpretation of scripture. I'm not…

TFA quotes Augustine on this, but no idea how much he said.

He chimes in on the break vs disfigure argument, but doesn't get into the why the nose would have special meaning. That's the part which is so fascinating tbh.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#87
post #81
post #48

In "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind", Julian Jaynes argues that before human intelligence was experienced as reflective, self-conscious internal monologue, early humans would routinely experience "command hallucinations" which they ascribed to gods[0]. In a setting that was designed to induce awe, reverence and altered states of consciousness, an idol could prompt believers to hallu…

I was under the impression - not having studied much about Jaynes' theory - that it is a well-regarded but falsified theory. That being said, what you describe sounds like an amazing premise for a novel.

The excellent novel "Snow Crash" was directly inspired by "The Origin of Consciousness":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#88
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe something about the Nubian rulers? Guest workers? I don't know.

The Nubians were a different group of people than most of the ancient Egyptian rulers we know. Nubians were in the South.

There were, however, a bunch of Pharaohs with some Nubian roots. Notably, Amenemhat I, the founder of the 12th dynasty, probably had a Nubian mother.

They were rare, though.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#89
post #71

I once took an Africana Studies course at UMass Boston and the professor taught us that the noses were broken off the statues due to the hatred of black peoples by white explorers over millennia. She also taught us that the ancient Egyptians were black and that it was black people that built the pyramids. When I innocently asked her why the slides she showed us seemed to show Egyptians as having more middle eastern a…

We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway. Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and th…

I think you are getting downvoted because a) you are asking to shut down a subject that is interesting to people. Talking about stuff is how people get educated. If you have an opinion or something to add, state it. Shutting down a topic because you judge the audience is too narrow to understand it makes... b) you come across as a snotty elitist who has an axe to grind.

I don't see how understanding how ancient people looked is a political study. Yes, race is highly political, but it can be a political and historical topic. Individuals can be interested in what humans used to look like (and this is not limited to blackness) without being interested in the politics.

No one is up in arms. People are just interested. The Ancient Greeks are decidedly caucasian, there is not much discussion around that because most scholars agree.

We make models of what we think prehistoric humans and sapiens looked like and there is much interest in that without it being political. People just like knowing stuff about the past, about their ancestors. Just because some assholes politicize this sort of thing, just because some teachers push their politically charged racial bias on others does not mean that the whole topic is exclusively socio-political.

Citing genetic studies is completely valid. Real science is non-political so I'd say that's a totally rational way to approach the question of what did the people of one of the most sophisticated ancient civilizations look like.

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