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Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

hyperallergic.com

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Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#91
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression - not having studied much about Jaynes' theory - that it is a well-regarded but falsified theory. That being said, what you describe sounds like an amazing premise for a novel.

The excellent novel "Snow Crash" was directly inspired by "The Origin of Consciousness": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash

That novel looks amazing, and it's going on my reading list. Thanks!

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#92
post #81
post #48

In "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind", Julian Jaynes argues that before human intelligence was experienced as reflective, self-conscious internal monologue, early humans would routinely experience "command hallucinations" which they ascribed to gods[0]. In a setting that was designed to induce awe, reverence and altered states of consciousness, an idol could prompt believers to hallu…

I was under the impression - not having studied much about Jaynes' theory - that it is a well-regarded but falsified theory. That being said, what you describe sounds like an amazing premise for a novel.

The most obvious refutation is that according to Jaynes' theory conciseness emerged just a few thousand years ago. Since humans took divergent paths across the globe over a hundred thousand years ago, this raises the question of how all humans developed consciousness independently and simultaneously - unless you think that consciousness is spread in a sort of memetic fashion, in which case you are asserting that aboriginal people did not have a consciousness as we would understand it prior to their contact with European colonialists, which is - to say the least - a weighty assertion to make.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#93
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the take-away is that in different eras statues were broken in different ways for different purposes. Various Egyptian groups broke each other's statues, which they fully understood, for instance breaking the left hand of gods understood to be giving things, and the right hand of those receiving things, to prevent them from performing their function. And often digging out the inscription of the name of the king…

...shave?

That's what Augustine says. It sounds like a chisel was not involved: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24792909

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#94

It's a shame that there don't seem to be any primary sources from Christians of that time explaining that practice. I would imagine that the Desert Fathers would have mentioned it at some point (if it happened in their time), but perhaps they weren't aware. Since this practice doesn't seem to be a part of Christianity elsewhere, it seems like it could something unique to a coptic interpretation of scripture. I'm not…

It seems from the article that the noses were broken more than a thousand years before Christ, so I'm not sure a Christian perspective could offer much.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is no different than Ancient Aliens where all of history is changed to be full of Aliens. Further thought: the trope that ancient constructions were built by aliens is also in general rarely applied to ancient white civilisations.

Probably because Europeans either made little worth attributing to aliens OR in cases where they did (Rome, Greece, later cathedrals, etc) lots of contemporary documentation exists today. In cases where an impressive structure in Europe was created but for which no contemporary documentation survives, aliens are indeed given credit. Stonehenge comes to mind.

[deleted]

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#96
post #81
post #48

In "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind", Julian Jaynes argues that before human intelligence was experienced as reflective, self-conscious internal monologue, early humans would routinely experience "command hallucinations" which they ascribed to gods[0]. In a setting that was designed to induce awe, reverence and altered states of consciousness, an idol could prompt believers to hallu…

I was under the impression - not having studied much about Jaynes' theory - that it is a well-regarded but falsified theory. That being said, what you describe sounds like an amazing premise for a novel.

The falsification usually hinges on discrediting the physiological aspects of the hypothesis: specifically, where the "commander" and the "actor" reside in the brain. Jaynes hypothesized that one lives in one hemisphere, and the other in the other, and commands are issued across the corpus callosum. This has since been disproven in favor of the perspectives centering the default mode network.

The other more phenomenological aspects are not easily falsifiable, nor indeed verifiable. But the arguments he provides at least itch the scratch of explaining strange behaviors and characteristics of our ancestors and the relics they left behind in a way that approaches Occam's razor.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#97
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression - not having studied much about Jaynes' theory - that it is a well-regarded but falsified theory. That being said, what you describe sounds like an amazing premise for a novel.

The excellent novel "Snow Crash" was directly inspired by "The Origin of Consciousness": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash

I was going to say, that theory sounds an awful lot like Stephenson's stuff about neurolinguistic programming.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#98

The noses are broken off in order to deprive the statues of their power. It's the same reason the the Muslims scratched out the eyes of Jesus in all of the mosaics in the Hagia Sophia.

nope, they are not scratched out: https://www.google.com/search?q=jesus+Hagia+Sophia

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#99

I once took an Africana Studies course at UMass Boston and the professor taught us that the noses were broken off the statues due to the hatred of black peoples by white explorers over millennia. She also taught us that the ancient Egyptians were black and that it was black people that built the pyramids. When I innocently asked her why the slides she showed us seemed to show Egyptians as having more middle eastern a…

At least one person in that class must have picked that class for an "easy A", wrote class papers and exams as was required, and thought they got a great deal out of it. Education is a market, you know, you buy a grade and you pay with studying. The less you pay, the better the deal, and everyone loves a good deal.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. Here's an article that answers it: https://hyperallergic.com/591628/why-are-the-noses-broken-on...

As far as I can tell the original article doesn't actually answer this. It assumes that the breakages are man-made (or restricts itself to only talking about those that are man-made) and then goes on to explain the breakages through that lens. Of course the explanations of those breakages are in turn at least some evidence that those breakages are indeed man-made, but the article doesn't go into explaining what propo…

>or restricts itself to only talking about those that are man-made

The author probably did that because those are the only breakages which are interesting. Erosion is interesting in its own way, but the reasons why people do things have a much wider audience.

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