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Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

hyperallergic.com

71–80 of 140 posts

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#71

I once took an Africana Studies course at UMass Boston and the professor taught us that the noses were broken off the statues due to the hatred of black peoples by white explorers over millennia. She also taught us that the ancient Egyptians were black and that it was black people that built the pyramids. When I innocently asked her why the slides she showed us seemed to show Egyptians as having more middle eastern a…

We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway.

Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and their southern neighbors) are an indigenous African population, with the current residents of the region generally descendents of the people who were there 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 thousand years ago. The question of their blackness is a political one - as blackness itself is a social construct of the modern age, predicated on appearance and political necessity rather than strict ancestry, and generally inapplicable to ancient populations. In this case, the continuous and vehement insistence that Egyptians were not "black", over a century and a half of Western scholarship and backed by varying rationales as the years proceeded, is useful as a study in the politics of race and perceived technical and societal capability.

No one gets so up in arms about whether or not the Ancient Greeks were "white" (Super-Alpine white).

Edit: I suppose I asked for it, considering my audience. Thank you for living up to my worst expectations. (Seriously, delete the post.)

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#72
post #71

I once took an Africana Studies course at UMass Boston and the professor taught us that the noses were broken off the statues due to the hatred of black peoples by white explorers over millennia. She also taught us that the ancient Egyptians were black and that it was black people that built the pyramids. When I innocently asked her why the slides she showed us seemed to show Egyptians as having more middle eastern a…

We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway. Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and th…

Ah, the academy's amazing tap dance to obscure simple but inconvenient facts. Love it.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#73
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it's now commonly suggested" a lot of things are commonly suggested today that have no basis in reality or no representation in real history. This is no different than Ancient Aliens where all of history is changed to be full of Aliens. Creating what you want to see out of scant evidence to support the claim. "Connecting the dots" to say what you want. Taking history and deciding that "race" is the reason something…

>This is no different than Ancient Aliens where all of history is changed to be full of Aliens. Further thought: the trope that ancient constructions were built by aliens is also in general rarely applied to ancient white civilisations.

Probably because Europeans either made little worth attributing to aliens OR in cases where they did (Rome, Greece, later cathedrals, etc) lots of contemporary documentation exists today.

In cases where an impressive structure in Europe was created but for which no contemporary documentation survives, aliens are indeed given credit. Stonehenge comes to mind.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#74

It's a shame that there don't seem to be any primary sources from Christians of that time explaining that practice. I would imagine that the Desert Fathers would have mentioned it at some point (if it happened in their time), but perhaps they weren't aware. Since this practice doesn't seem to be a part of Christianity elsewhere, it seems like it could something unique to a coptic interpretation of scripture. I'm not…

TFA quotes Augustine on this, but no idea how much he said.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#75
post #14

Is there a reason to read more into it than "they're really old and brittle and noses are thin and stick out"?

The article describes ritual icon desecration where by breaking off the nose, the spirit of the person or god depicted attempting to inhabit the desecrated icon couldn't breathe, and thus would be denied re-joining the land of the living there. They'd also ideally remove the head completely but you'd still break off the nose if that's all you could do. When power changed in Egypt, those who came after would desecrate…

If you're building a statue to have people venerate you forever, and your first act was to ruin the nose of the statue of the dude before you...

How did this not become a massive nose-strengthening race?

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#76
post #72
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway. Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and th…

Ah, the academy's amazing tap dance to obscure simple but inconvenient facts. Love it.

I feel like I'm being concise. Blackness is a designation of political expediency. It's not a genetic distinction. HN commenters routinely confuse this point. Ergo, this is a poor topic for us to discuss.

You seem to be hinting at something scandalous; please do be upfront.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#77
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe something about the Nubian rulers? Guest workers? I don't know.

The Nubians were a different group of people than most of the ancient Egyptian rulers we know. Nubians were in the South.

True, but they had close relationships with ancient Egypt, including various periods of rule by and of Egypt proper, and their cultural artifacts and practices were very heavily Egyptianized, to a point where it's a fine distinction whether something is Nubian or Egyptian, for a period of something like a thousand years

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#78
post #29

Part of me, completely without data and gut feel, thinks if I was going to smash a statue, I’m going for the head. A lot of these statues have broken heads too ... not all though. When I hit the head, I’m also a terrible person, meaning I’m definitely going for the face, no? What’s the part that I am likely to hit on the face first because it sticks out? What’s the part most likely to break on the head? Just a no-dat…

I'm interested in the assumption that if you're going to whack a statue around the head, hitting the face makes you an even more terrible person. Like, what is bad about hitting a statue? And what is worse about hitting its face? Can you talk more about that?

Yes - my view is that attacking a statue is, in your mind, very close to attacking a person.

So you are thinking “if this was a real person, how am I going to really ruin their day”, understanding that you are not actually attacking a person. But it sure probably feels more like it than hitting a granite tile.

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#79

I once took an Africana Studies course at UMass Boston and the professor taught us that the noses were broken off the statues due to the hatred of black peoples by white explorers over millennia. She also taught us that the ancient Egyptians were black and that it was black people that built the pyramids. When I innocently asked her why the slides she showed us seemed to show Egyptians as having more middle eastern a…

[deleted]

Re: Why are the noses broken on Egyptian statues?

#80
post #29

Part of me, completely without data and gut feel, thinks if I was going to smash a statue, I’m going for the head. A lot of these statues have broken heads too ... not all though. When I hit the head, I’m also a terrible person, meaning I’m definitely going for the face, no? What’s the part that I am likely to hit on the face first because it sticks out? What’s the part most likely to break on the head? Just a no-dat…

I'm interested in the assumption that if you're going to whack a statue around the head, hitting the face makes you an even more terrible person. Like, what is bad about hitting a statue? And what is worse about hitting its face? Can you talk more about that?

You take a piece of art, and proceed to destroy it.

It's a violent act. It doesn't mean that you are a bad person, but it is similar enough for a model.

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