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Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

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Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#341

Post by haswell »

e40 wrote: post #331
haswell wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for highlighting this. As others have said, I could not agree more. As a Product Manager, working remotely 100% of the time is absolute hell. And I say this as someone who was already working from home ~70% of the time before (and I was mostly ok with that). I also wanted to pick on a few of the categories you mentioned: > "only incompetent managers need to see you in person" Some of the best work I've done…

Why can't you brainstorm in a virtual room? I've been part of that many times over the years, and it works, too. The only thing I miss is taking walks with coworkers. That is where the real value was for me. Something about walking and talking that is so beneficial.

I'm talking about conversations that might take all day, or days. Breaking down enormous problems. Deep collaborative work.

Can you do this in a virtual room? Yes. Will you achieve the same outcome? Early results (in my case) seem to indicate the answer is "no".

I want the ability to pace around the room at times. Look my collaborators in the eye. Pick up on non-verbal cues that are often impossible to see remotely. Step away as a group to share a much needed lunch break.

And when passionate people are involved, and many viewpoints are present, the ability to all argue/debate a topic vigorously - even show frustration at the right moments - and then all share a beer at the end of the day, is critical. Having that same vigorous debate on Zoom and then dropping off to our individual lives doesn't leave room for reconnecting with each other as humans - something that is critical for maintaining relationships.

Not every project requires this kind of interaction. But for things that do, the remote format just doesn't work well for everyone.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#342

Post by hinkley »

throwaway98az8 wrote: post #179

Context: I was in the interview pipeline before/when this announced, so I've gotten some additional clarification on the logistics. I think this is strictly worse than providing employees with the option of where to work (office/remote/some WFH). Something missing in this announcement is that you still need to live in one of the main cities with offices (SF, Seattle, Austin, Dublin) in order to receive full pay. Movi…

> but you don't have a nice office with meals/snacks

I was watching an interview recently, might have been buried in the middle of The Social Dilemma, where the speaker mentioned that this class of concierge service risks infantilizing people, and in particular in a time when code that young programmers author effects more and more of the population, that's dangerous.

The implication was that we need people to grow up. If they're going to be responsible (in the specific case), then they should be/get prepared to take responsibility (in the general case).

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#343

Post by omegam »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #291

Meh... working from home for 3 days a weak is great... all the time, really sucks (for me atleast). Yu miss all the fun with coworkers, all the fun side projects, productive or not... ..on the other hand, working from home, especially when they promote "whenever you feel like it", means you're "on call" all the time. Having "core hours" (eg 10-15h, weekdays) and having everybody available then (for calls, meetings, s…

Anecdotally, but having done 100% WFH for over a year now, I think the first point depends a lot on company culture. We're given explicit permission to use work hours to play games/hang out together, specifically because of the lack of traditional social structures. In the same vein, we're given regular time to work on work-related projects of our choosing.

It definitely doesn't work for some people, but a lot of problems I've seen people bring up can be rectified by the employer. Some of them can't be, but those that can shouldn't be expressed as fact.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#344

Post by ponker »

schoolornot wrote: post #295
syspec wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the Pinterest cancelled their lease, I forget how much but they had to pay 90M to do it, but they got out of it

I wonder why a landlord would even entertain such an offer. It's not uncommon for leases to be ~15 years. That is a hell of a risky move to think that you'll be ahead by offering a buyout with the hope of finding new tenants.

For a large commerical real estate deal, the termination fee is always negotiated as part of the lease contract.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#345

Post by varenc »

schoolornot wrote: post #295
syspec wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the Pinterest cancelled their lease, I forget how much but they had to pay 90M to do it, but they got out of it

I wonder why a landlord would even entertain such an offer. It's not uncommon for leases to be ~15 years. That is a hell of a risky move to think that you'll be ahead by offering a buyout with the hope of finding new tenants.

The early cancellation payout was probably part of the original lease agreement. Big commercial contracts are dense and cover a lot of contingencies.

You can usually find a public company's leases in SEC fillings. I couldn't find one for Pinterest, but I found Dropbox's 200+ page lease agreement here: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0001467623/000119312...

(it's a 15 year lease, with the cost increasing from $45 million/year to $68 million/years over the 15 years. Hope there's some option to re-negotiate in there)

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#346

Post by andrenatalbr »

I work for a remote first company for years, and they are now doing the same thing, and I hate not having an office so I can sit and code alone with proper infrastructure in a quiet manner. The company is basically offloading the office costs to employees. I'd appreciate if they give me a 20k stipend to invest on an Air conditioner unit for my house. The heat this year is being brutal in the Bay Area.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#347

Post by ponker »

ryanSrich wrote: post #199
headmelted wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture" This is stated as fact everywhere but I've not seen supporting evidence anywhere. I spend about as much time in my day speaking to other people as I would have done productively and by choice before. The only difference now is that I'm more able to avoid extraneous meetings and other drags on my time that don…

> Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture The people who say this are the people you never see doing any work. They use the office as a social gathering place. They seemingly have no real job, despite a lofty title and high salary. They are the bane of existence for high functioning employees. This is one of the few hills I will die on. I've never he…

How about Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella. I'd call him a productive critical employee.

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#348

Post by dheera »

ashtonkem wrote: post #206
dhouston wrote: post #33

To be clear (if you only read the headline :)), not entirely remote. Solo work at home, collaborative work in "studios", basically reimagining the offices into collaborative/convening spaces that you go into from ~once/week to once a quarter depending on team/role. Remote-only cuts out the in-person experience entirely, which is problematic for building teams and culture; and ad hoc "WFH whenever you feel like it" ge…

Like you, I am genuinely baffled by "WFH 4 days a week" arrangements (as compared to "WFH when you have errands that make it necessary", which is pretty common). If I have to come into the office 1 day a week, then I still have to foot the bill for a home office within driving range of the office, which sucks. I think at once a quarter you're starting to look at the ability to live on the other side of the country an…

Hypothetical question: What if it was WFH 4 days a week but the company foots (a) the difference between your rent and the median rent for the square footage of your living space in the country you live in, upto some reasonable limit, AND (b) all of your home office equipment and furniture?

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#349

Post by andrenatalbr »

tidepod12 wrote: post #67
thrownaway954 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not trying to sound like a dick... everyone has to get out of the house and making actual friends in life. co-workers aren't friends, bosses aren't friends, clients aren't friends, work relationships aren't friends. we all need human interaction... join a club, a gym, yoga, bike club, whatever, just interact with people that doesn't involve talking about work. and sitting home and playing video games while good, isn'…

>co-workers aren't friends, bosses aren't friends, clients aren't friends, work relationships aren't friends. It really saddens me whenever I see this (apparently common) sentiment on HN. Through every job I've had, I've met some of my very best life-long friends. My wedding party is over half people that I met at work. A couple of my former bosses are people I see every couple of months (pre-covid) and are invited t…

This is a very underrated comment

Re: Dropbox Converts to Permanent WFH

#350

Post by ponker »

wffurr wrote: post #69
rogerkirkness wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We give people $5k for setup (includes PC, though), reimburse cell and internet (and ask them to upgrade) and basically spare no expense on webcam, lighting and ethernet setup.

Ethernet setup - do you hire techs and electricians to run cabling? The biggest issue with me for WFH has been the quality of my internet connection and it was entirely on me to get Comcast to come fix my lines and run my own ethernet to my basement "office".

If you intend to work from home then of course hire an electrician (or low voltage contractor, don't even need an electrician) to run an Ethernet cable! If you won't invest $500 in your WFH setup you're missing the forest for the trees.
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