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The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

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Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#341

Post by stouset »

jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

> And all those tangible cost savings thanks to the removal of this accessory... not only have those savings not been passed onto the consumer, but they actually increased the price!

With all due respect, this isn’t insightful; it’s asinine.

The iPhone 12 is a completely new device, yet you’re acting like they took the existing product, removed a piece from the box, and jacked up the price. When planning this new device, the designers were constrained by a cost budget for both the bill of materials and manufacturing. By not including a charging brick, those designers had extra headroom in the budget, and neither you nor I have any idea what this headroom was used for (or to be fair, if it was used at all). They may have had even more extra headroom than the nominal cost of the brick due to increased shipping efficiencies driving down overall costs further. 70% more devices per pallet (if I remember the figures correctly) is no joke!

I’d argue the most likely scenario is that if the charging brick had been included, the price would be $10-$20 higher than it is, for a device that many of us already own five or more of and have no use for. Your assertion that they’re simply pocketing the difference is to be frank completely unfounded.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#342

Post by Shared404 »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #323
mmm_grayons wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness to Apple, they didn't just make other ports for the sake of it. When lightning mini was made, it was objectively better than mini-USB. When magsafe was made, it was objectively better than barrel plugs (and for charging, it's still better than USB-C.) Now that the standards are better, Apple is slowly transitioning to USB-C, which is a standard.

I remember making the observation a few years back that when the MacBooks went USB-C, they marked the first time that, as far as I know, Apple ever shipped a machine that had no proprietary ports on it... and it was so ironic that people (including, I'd note, on HN) were really angry about it. I still get into arguments with people insisting that it was all just a plot for Apple to force you to buy dongles.

THe thing is, I appreciate the fact that they are pushing USB-C, it's a thing that needs to happen, and the sooner the better.

However, how am I supposed to use a laptop with _two ports_, one of which will be consumed any time I am charging.

I go over that on my laptop all the time.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#343

Post by alistairSH »

TwoBit wrote: post #228
alistairSH wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of thee existing Apple charging cubes are not USB-C. The cable included with the new phones is USB-C -> Lightning. So, the cable doesn't work with most existing chargers (unless you happen to also own an iPad Pro).

Yeah but the five other cables/chargers in their drawer do work.

Then why include the cable? Save a few more whales and leave it out as well.

If I were king... the phone would be sold “bare”, but for $30 less. If somebody needs a charger or cable, they can use that $30 to buy one. Instead, Apple remove the charger, includes a cable not compatible with most iPhone owner’s existing chargers, increased the price $30, and tell me it’s to save the planet? GTFO.

(Really, I’m not nearly as annoyed as I probably sound, I just hate the inconsistency)

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#344

Post by stouset »

duxup wrote: post #278
marketingPro wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To anyone who isn't stuck in the Apple ecosystem it appears that Apple is squeezing their customers yet again. And a response defending them is no surprise. The human brain will rationalize anything.

"squeezing their customers yet again" What qualifies as that exactly? The amount of hyperbole about a $30 bit of metal and plastic (that I bet many folks already own) is pretty crazy to me.

Only $20 now. For (from what I’ve come to understand from seeing tear downs) arguably the highest-quality and safest device in the category.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#345

Post by stouset »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #246
JoelTheSuperior wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair I've maintained for a while now that the reason Apple uses lightning on the phones is because it's quite frankly much more durable than USB-C.

Lightning ports are not more durable than USB-C. They are extremely prone to the device-side conductor corroding. USB mini made the mistake of making the device side contain a friction wear item, but USB micro fixed that but had other endurance issues due to its flimsiness. USB C doesn’t suffer from any of those drawbacks.

Every USB-C device I’ve ever owned—including my MacBook Pro—has suffered from cables failing to “click” into place and being held in noticeably more loosely than when they were brad new. This has happened from within a few weeks to a few months. And it’s not the simply the cables wearing out: new cables with old devices produces the same behavior. And when I remove my USB-C YubiKey, the port it uses produces the satisfying click (the port is effectively brand new, since the device is never removed in general use).

Every single Lightning device I’ve owned still connects as if brand new. The only people I ever seem to hear criticize Lightning are people who don’t even own Apple devices.

In my opinion, the form factor of USB-C was a massive mistake (even before considering the nightmare of competing cable incompatibilities) and they should have gone with the form factor of Lightning.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#346

Post by stouset »

koyote wrote: post #314
kube-system wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that USB-C would be more environmentally friendly. I am fairly sure that the vast majority of people buying new Apple phones today are people that currently have Apple phones. Lots of Apple's customer base have been iPhone loyalists for longer than USB-C has been commonplace.

But USB-C is used for literally every other new device and even other Apple devices such as their laptops and ipad pros. It's the defacto standard for charging any kind of electronic device.

Which doesn’t in any way shape or form negate the simple reality that there is currently an ecosystem of perfectly functioning Lightning accessories that will all need to be junked when Apple transitions the iPhone to USB-C.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#347

Post by mmm_grayons »

edhelas wrote: post #320
mmm_grayons wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness to Apple, they didn't just make other ports for the sake of it. When lightning mini was made, it was objectively better than mini-USB. When magsafe was made, it was objectively better than barrel plugs (and for charging, it's still better than USB-C.) Now that the standards are better, Apple is slowly transitioning to USB-C, which is a standard.

To the point that you can easily find a USB-C port on all their iPhone, iPad and other devices yes ! Wait...

You can find usbc ports exclusively on newer macbooks and ipads, which is pretty significant, and they also come on the desktop macs. I'm guessing it will appear in iphones at some point; I believe Apple was considering a switch for the latest iphones but backed out in May. It's reasonably likelt that the next models will drop the lightning mini.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#348

Post by stouset »

Shivetya wrote: post #217
epanchin wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they wanted to be enviroment they would have switched to USB-C. I'm personally happy about the lack of charger, all my Apple ones go into a drawer never to be seen again.

I am in the camp that they should just hand them out to anyone who has purchased a new phone. They cannot cost that much and this way new customers are not out an additional cost. This is easily accomplished at the store and a good retailer could run with the idea to differentiate themselves for a low cost

This is one of the few criticisms I can get behind. I think Apple could deflect a lot of criticism here for a comparatively small amount of money by simply offering a standalone brick as a free accessory to anyone purchasing a new phone.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#349

Post by stouset »

ballenf wrote: post #326
pwinnski wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I have a pile of existing charges and cables, no problem. The new free included cable will let me charge my new phone* from my MacBook, something I currently cannot do! * I don't actually plan to buy a new phone, but hypothetically.

Just based on MacBook vs. iPhone sales numbers, Apple sells 40 iPhones for every laptop. Most iPhone owners don't have an Apple laptop. Numbers from 2018: 217M iPhones, 5M laptops: https://www.statista.com/topics/847/apple/

Most people hold onto their laptops for longer than they go between phone upgrades. And many (most? all?) laptop manufactures have USB-C ports on their devices these days, all of which can be used to charge your phone.
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