Live data from Hacker News

The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

sixcolors.com

271–280 of 416 posts

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#271

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

What % of iphone users already have (multiple) charger bricks? I would intuit a large % of buyers already have multiple which personally I think gives more credit to in Apple's excuse

Dozens of USB-A charger bricks sure. Heck, I've added them to our bedroom wall sockets to save having to have extra things plugged in. USB-C? One for my work MacBook.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#272
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I grant the second premise, could you explain your antipathy to the first? If I want to have a mobile phone, I need a mobile phone plan to go with it. What's wrong with bundling those services for a slightly lower total bill? It strikes me as pretty standard business logic.

It begins to muddy the water about what you’re buying. It also leads people to spending more on a phone than they set out or budgeted. It doesn’t seem like much, but it is a shady practice-the kind “old Apple” wouldn’t have done.

Just to be clear, are you saying paying for things on an installment plan is a shady practice?

Easy to say if you can afford a new phone up front...

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#273

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

I do not buy for a second that environmental concerns were Apple's primary reason for removing the power brick and the lightning headphones from the box, though I think the decision makes sense. The lighting headphones are more of a pain than they are worth and most consumers have enough five watt power bricks floating around if they really need one. From a PR and messaging stand point environmentalism was really the…

Every year the new model has a gimmick - I mean, a new, unique, compelling selling point.

3G: 3G!

3GS: Speed!

4: Retina Display!

4S: Siri!

5: 4G!

5S: Touch ID! 64bit!

6: Finally bigger size! Also, Apple Pay!

6S: 3D Touch! (groan)

7: Dual camera!

X: Face ID!

Xs Max: Even bigger! Dual Sim!

11 ProMax: Triple camera!

12 ProMax: 5G, Lidar!

5G is meaningless to a lot of people, yours truly included, and will most likely stay meaningless for a couple years at least, given the tiny deployments and the minimal speed advantage. But it's a big deal so it had to be one new model year's gimmick. I'm happy we got over it, so maybe next year they'll have to come up with something I actually care to buy.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just like the initial iPhone needed one carrier to get things right Except for the rest of the world, which did just fine. Apple tried to do US-like deals with European carriers and it was just so fundamentally incompatible with the European mindset that many people simply did not understand what they were trying to sell or why. It took a year or so before Apple realized Europeans buy phones and subscriptions separ…

I am not sure what you mean by "Europeans", but Germany certainly was no stranger to buying phones together with a subscription.

But a German is aware that phones can also be bought without a subscription, and knows the full price of the phone, I think.

If you look at how USers talk, the price with a contract is the actual price of the phone for them.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#275
post #239

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

I feel weird about sort of defending this practice but ... I don't have a problem with it. There it is, the phone without a charger is the offer, you know it, I know it. We all know the price and the product. There's no mystery here. This stuff about if it was a hard decision or not, I don't see how it matters. Folks who take this kinda of marketing to heart, I just don't get it.

To anyone who isn't stuck in the Apple ecosystem it appears that Apple is squeezing their customers yet again.

And a response defending them is no surprise. The human brain will rationalize anything.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#276
post #170

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

It's going to be incredibly frustrating for the average person to buy an almost-$1000 device, use it until it runs out of battery, and realize that a charger is a completely separate purchase. Especially because the included cable is USB-C, so it won't work with most old power bricks. I feel like Steve wouldn't've let this happen... the UX is just so, so bad. It feels incredibly profit-motivated.

Or they just use the USB2 cable from their previous iPhone.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#277

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

See also their accidental leadership in "consumer privacy".

That's just marketing speak. They have no issue giving your data to governments. PRISM for a US example.

If not for Snowden we wouldn't know this. How many other governments and Corporations are getting data?

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#278
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel weird about sort of defending this practice but ... I don't have a problem with it. There it is, the phone without a charger is the offer, you know it, I know it. We all know the price and the product. There's no mystery here. This stuff about if it was a hard decision or not, I don't see how it matters. Folks who take this kinda of marketing to heart, I just don't get it.

To anyone who isn't stuck in the Apple ecosystem it appears that Apple is squeezing their customers yet again. And a response defending them is no surprise. The human brain will rationalize anything.

"squeezing their customers yet again"

What qualifies as that exactly?

The amount of hyperbole about a $30 bit of metal and plastic (that I bet many folks already own) is pretty crazy to me.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically the cost to manufacture goes down over time. You seem to be implying that it would have gone up. Is there a reason it would have?

Since neither of us know... let's not assume either way! Maybe it was sold at a loss before! Who knows.

If you're going to repeatedly insinuate in your comments to me and others that the price to manufacture could have gone up over time, you should have some theory to back it. It's not my job to disprove pure speculation, especially when it goes against the general and well-known trend that manufacturing yields go up over time, and this drives down cost.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#280

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

There is another aspect to this people might be missing:

If every phone that is shipped must come with a charger, but half the chargers are never used, then the marginal value gained by customers from the manufacturer improving that product is also halved.

So why bother making the charger good? Half the people won't use it! They'd have to pay for something that's not a direct benefit to the product they do want to buy: the phone.

This is one of the reasons the chargers that come with typical electronic devices are so bad. So very very bad.

They're big. They're odd shaped. They can't be plugged in side-by-side. They're heavy. The don't provide much power. They're inefficient. Etc... Some are downright dangerous.

It's a race to the bottom where noone wins.

Here's the thing: I like the "fancy" chargers Apple makes. They use very advanced technology such as gallium nitride circuitry to miniaturise their chargers. They're tiny, yet powerful! They don't get hot. They're light. They're safe.

But I only need one or two, but only when travelling. At home I need none because the IKEA power strips have USB charging ports built in!

I'd much rather concentrate my dollars into a couple of really good chargers instead of a bunch of mediocre chargers that's forced upon me on a one-to-one basis with the number of devices that I own.

Also: I haven't used a wired charger for my phone in about a year. Why include a wired charger if the customer has a choice of charging technologies? Should Apple include both a wireless and wired charger? Should they include a car-kit too?

No. This is the point of standards: it lets you mix and match components at will instead of getting a fixed combination.

Post reply on HN