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The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

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Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#91
post #76
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of things the US should do. Our government is down at the moment, and on-call has no idea how to resolve the issue.

Your comment is funny, but you should be aware this is a state issue, not a federal one. Unless you are implying every state is down too :)

Interstate commerce, which this most certainly is, is a federal issue?

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#92
post #37

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

Not to mention dentists, doctors, hospitals, etc. I have an eye doctor appt this week and I literally have no idea if it's gonna cost me $50 or $500.

Especially if you don't pay for a really good insurance policy or your employer provides you with a really good insurance policy. You will get screwed with no remorse.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#93
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention dentists, doctors, hospitals, etc. I have an eye doctor appt this week and I literally have no idea if it's gonna cost me $50 or $500.

I asked straight up before seeing the doc about the cost and nobody knew. They finally estimated "about $1,500" and my total bill was around $5,000. And if I refuse to pay it, they send me to collections. It's insane what they are allowed to do.

The real kicker: Before the doc will even see you, you need to sign an agreement that basically says: "You agree to be responsible for paying whatever amount this doctor decides to charge, which could be any amount from $0 to $infinity, and which the doctor will not know prior to treatment."

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually it is on a phone that costs $699 i.e. a 4.3% price increase

That's assuming everyone buys the cheaper version with no memory upgrades. Apple's average sales price is significantly higher than that. This seems marginal.

The last known iPhone ASP (from AAPL 2018 Q4 results) was $793

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#95
post #81

Everyone is talking about the $30, but the real story is that iPhone 12 is at least $100 more expensive than iPhone 11. The $30 thing seems almost like an intentional distraction from a huge price increase during a global depression and pandemic.

> The $30 thing seems almost like an intentional distraction from a huge price increase during a global depression and pandemic.

Apple's customers are largely not lacking for purchasing power. That's why you won't see their quarterly sales tanking through this mess.

In the US, the iPhone buyers as an economic class have not seen a large and sustained unemployment spike, as they did during the great recession (which severely hit a broad swath of labor). Nearly all of the big job hit this time around has been absorbed by the working poor or lower middle class, people that work at hotels, bars, restaurants, in hospitality broadly, and other lower pay jobs that were similarly exposed to a bad hit by Covid-related closings.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#96
post #31

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

You don’t need a law for something a consumer can vote with their money. If annoying price structures are that bad, a competitor will create a superior pricing system that takes away marketshare. If that doesn’t happen, then it’s probably not a big deal. Adding laws increases the complexity to comply.

> If annoying price structures are that bad, a competitor will create a superior pricing system that takes away marketshare. If that doesn’t happen, then it’s probably not a big deal.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Just because it happens, doesn't mean it is not a big deal.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lie that involves charging someone more money is still a lie even if it's $30 (not insignificant! the cost of a good meal or ~half a tank of gas!) instead of $300

What part of "starting at $699" is a lie? You will be able to exchange $699 for an iPhone 12 Mini.

And then you will be charged a 30 dollar mandatory activation fee once you attempt to use your phone.

Wheras on T-Mobile you pay 729, and then do not have an activation fee.

It is basically a scam, much like how hotels are allowed to charge "resort fees" to have lower prices in online search engines.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the iPhone launching as an AT&T exclusive or something back in the day. Did whichever US carrier it was get the same duration of exclusive placement?

I understand that was more because AT&T/Cingular was the only carrier willing to allow a phone that they literally weren’t allowed to see until launch day onto their network. Didn’t the other carriers baulk at Apple and tell them to pound-sand for thinking they’d let them use their network without any oversight of their phone’s software system or similar?

In Europe (and, I would guess, everywhere) everybody can launch a GSM phone without cooperation of phone companies.

You do need to pass certification tests, but those are set by governments. Those tests may be defined with lots of input from industry and may be executed by institutes created by manufacturers as a group, but AFAIK, those institutes are so independent from the manufacturers that they won’t let commercial interests affect test results.

The issue with the original iPhone was that consumers were used to get a ‘free’ phone with their subscription. To do that, manufacturers need to work with a phone company.

The iPhone’s success was not a given and Steve Jobs had fairly stringent ideas about pricing. That made it hard to find a phone company to work with. IIRC, AT&T was a bit of an underdog in the market. That made them fall for Steve’s offer.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#99
post #39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is that the competitor can't compete because the consumer is being lied to about the price in the first place—which they don't know until it's too late.

The article says they put asterisks on the prices along with clarifications in the small text. That’s not being lied to, just annoying.

I literally thought I knew what the prices were until I read this article. I saw the "from $699" and "knew" it meant the cheapest model (the mini) was $699. Turns out I was wrong. I was wrong because they mislead me. Knowing the truth matters for me both in purchasing decisions and in recommendations to others, which I do a lot of.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#100

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

Studies have shown that people spend less money when prices are higher/all inclusive. Check out the story of Stubhub and their attempt to be all inclusive. (tldr: people stopped buying tickets until they unbundled the mandatory fees)

What's good for GDP is good for America!

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