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PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

tutanota.com

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Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#121

Post by InitialLastName »

zepto wrote: post #91
hnaccy wrote: post #25

Why is there so little call for reform from congress and new administrations etc? Obama or Trump had no part in building the original system so why do they continue it? Is the political class as a whole 100% on board with authoritarian, privacy invading, controlling America?

One explanation would be some cabal or ‘the political class’ having an authoritarian agenda. The other would be that some of the danger is real and people in power are wary of giving up tools to fight it. Most likely both have significant truth.

And/or that it's a local jobs program for enough representatives' districts that cutting it is a no-go, the same issue as with many other military-industrial programs.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#122

Post by phjesusthatguy3 »

antris wrote: post #95
jogjayr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intent isn't to make it softer though. "PTSD" is more accurate than "shell shock". In WWI they thought that the accumulated shockwave exposure from constant shelling caused mental issues in soldiers. Today we know that all sorts of stressful situations can cause PTSD; it doesn't require being in the trenches taking howitzer fire day and night.

The point Carlin was trying to make is that the human experience is removed from a term such as "post-traumatic stress disorder". Yes, it might be more medically accurate, but fighting for the rights of people who experienced "shell shock" might have been more impactful. When your experienced is buried underneath medical terms, you bury the humanity of it.

Shell Shock isn't a better description of the problem than Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; the problem is that not enough people care to make this a priority.

Not everyone who gets fucked up got fucked up due to being shocked with shells. Your mom didn't get shocked with shells; she got shocked with your dad's fists (maybe even after he got Shell Shock).

Bad things happen to people, and sometimes they cause lasting trauma. The direct cause might be different but the effect is similar enough that the words used to name it should change.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#123

Post by craftinator »

phobosanomaly wrote: post #84
bastardoperator wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not going to tell you about wins or loses, it would be silly to think otherwise. I'm not saying I agree with the program in any capacity, but those of us that have worked with government have a simple saying "loose lips sink ships".

We read about the loses in the news, because people are killed and injured. We hear about the wins too. The whole Bin Laden raid was a massive publicity coup for the Obama administration. It was shouted from the rooftops. If a president can point to something in an election year and go "see, see there, I made you people safer," they will.

I subscribe to this belief as well. Presidents have the power to declassify information at will, and I haven't been alive to see a president that isn't spending lots of time singing their own praises; popularity contests tend to select people of that ilk.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#124

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #81
docPangloss wrote: post #48

I referenced PRISM in a comment to a recent Apple article on HN a couple of days ago. It triggered HN and Apple fans and the comment ultimately got shadow-banned by moderators.[1] Anyway, it’s astonishing that so many people willfully continue to use products/services offered by the core companies that are members of PRISM surveillance. Members provide access to ALL user data/information to NSA et al. Here are some t…

The problem is that what you are saying is false, and the links you provide don’t back up your assertion in the slightest. Perhaps some of these companies ‘joined’ prism willingly, but Google and Apple both deny having done so. The dates you quote are from slides indicating when prism started to acquire data from these companies. They have nothing to do with membership or joining . Data was obtained from these compan…

> Perhaps some of these companies ‘joined’ prism willingly, but Google and Apple both deny having done so.

And you of course trust them.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#126

Post by fsflover »

branon wrote: post #116

I understand the intent, and agree, but Tutanota's blog posts are really low quality. I'm sure there are much better and more in-depth articles we could be reading about this.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-phone-snooping-illegal-c...

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#128

Post by idclip »

jogjayr wrote: post #79
MarcellusDrum wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Patriot Act" is so maliciously named its more funny than sad. Reminds me of George Carlin's show about changing words to make them softer.[1] An good example he used to show this is the condition the fighters get from shock in combat. In WW1, it was called Shell Shock, a terrifying name. The same condition in WW1 was called Battle Fatigue, a nicer name. In the Korean War, the name changed to Operational Exhausti…

The intent isn't to make it softer though. "PTSD" is more accurate than "shell shock". In WWI they thought that the accumulated shockwave exposure from constant shelling caused mental issues in soldiers. Today we know that all sorts of stressful situations can cause PTSD; it doesn't require being in the trenches taking howitzer fire day and night.

It moves the blame to the victim.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#130

Post by throwaway91914 »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #4

You'd think if it had stopped any attacks, the program's proponents would be shouting it from the rooftops. But no- nothing. Not even attempts to lie ("oh, we stopped several attacks, but we can't tell you anything about them...") PRISM is a phenomenal waste of trust and money.

> PRISM is a phenomenal waste of trust and money.

Surveillance is about gaining power through information asymmetry. Spying on military, political or FINANCIAL targets is worth trillions.

It has nothing to do with terrorism, and everything to do with political hegemony.

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