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Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

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Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#181

Post by justinclift »

gambiting wrote: post #72
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The situation in here is more like "haha, ok, we just need to tow this thing out of the garage and try again" - no big deal. No big deal when the reason you can't get a signal is that you're in a parking garage. Rather more of a life-threatening defect when the reason you can't get a signal is that you're driving through an unpopulated desert where there are no cell towers or other people.

Look, I don't disagree with you, it's a problem - but I can guarantee that more Ferrari customers are affected by someone trying to steal their car than there are Ferrari customers driving through an unpopulated desert with no phone signal(and trying to do roadside repair). It's just a question of probabilities, and the first issue seems more important to solve. Besides, I think there's a certain fundamental misunder…

> but I'm certain it's also possible in-person with some kind of key/button input or some diagnostic device.

Seems like you're giving Ferrari too much credit, as the engineer they sent out wasn't able to get it working (eg in-person).

The car needed to be towed (back to Ferrari I guess).

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#182

Post by m463 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #137
LeonM wrote: post #70

A lot of readers here, and on Reddit seem to be misunderstanding the situation. The way I understand it, this car was taken in by a garage for 'seat installation'. I presume this means after market seats. The car disabled itself during installation. The OP assumed due to an anti-temper device, but it could have been any failure mode. Most modern cars with airbags will have sensors in the seats to disable some of the…

Agreed, I also really dislike this frequent misuse of the term "bricking". Bricking used to mean getting your device into a permanently unrecoverable state, but these days I see it used so often as just to mean "I can't turn it on right now".

You're right of course, but nowadays it's become sort of "some working object has become inert due to software and requires physical intervention"

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#183

Post by Spooky23 »

alexcabrera wrote: post #133
Spooky23 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are dozens of car companies, so the market is working. Government regulation exists because your desire to buy a “simple” car impacts my ability to breathe. You can buy very simple vehicles for off road use. Fixing broken cars became a cultural thing because cars really sucked and you had to waste a fair portion of your life fixing them. Things like emission regulation brought metrics and standards to the indus…

> your desire to buy a “simple” car impacts my ability to breathe This kind of hyperbole is exactly why we have the president we do.

When I was growing up in NYC, first task of spring cleaning was washing the soot from cars off the side of the house.

It’s not hyperbole. Clean air is something we have because of regulatory action.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#184

Post by mikestew »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #57
gambiting wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think preventing your car from being stolen is an extremely basic issue - it's a risk that exists at the back of your mind constantly when you drive an expensive vehicle, so yeah, I'm glad the car does this. The situation in here is more like "haha, ok, we just need to tow this thing out of the garage and try again" - no big deal.

> The situation in here is more like "haha, ok, we just need to tow this thing out of the garage and try again" - no big deal. No big deal when the reason you can't get a signal is that you're in a parking garage. Rather more of a life-threatening defect when the reason you can't get a signal is that you're driving through an unpopulated desert where there are no cell towers or other people.

If one can afford a Ferrari, one can afford a satellite phone/communicator. If one can afford a Ferrari, one also knows that it is far more likely the thing will break the old-fashioned way rather than lock you out via software. Hell, I don't care who made it, cars still get flat tires.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#185

Post by cromulent »

compsciphd wrote: post #116
nrmitchi wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone who has both a child, and a Ferrari.

does it have a back seat?

yes, the Portofino M does have back seats, although they are limited somewhat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Portofino#/media/File:...

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#186

Post by olivermarks »

djpr wrote: post #168
olivermarks wrote: post #141

This is such a vague reddit piece it's very hard to understand if the car is truly bricked or just needs to be towed to a place with signal. As a broader issue independent car repair garages are dying fast as more and more cars are manufactured with inaccessible DRM coupled with very expensive handshake hardware and software only dealers can own. This is a huge problem quite aside from the issue of what happens when…

From the author of the thread, apparently no, towed to a place with a signal is not an option: "Oh yeah, so nope. The fact it had no signal at the time of the tamper safeguard being triggered meant that remote recovery wasn't an option, even when we moved it into the open. Idk, an extra layer of theft protection I suppose." https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9qn...

Would like to hear Ferrari's perspective on this. I already read the owner and various other commenters perceptions. I expect Ferrari have a dongle or similar to reset, although they probably wouldn't want to talk about specifics

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#187

Post by agseward »

saiya-jin wrote: post #162
nrmitchi wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all child seats are rear-facing child seats.

No but for tiny little newborns, all are. Something about not having proper muscle structure around spine to handle thrust forward during frontal (most common) crash. Also reason why you should never shake babies or expose them to any form of higher G. We're changing the child seat to front facing right now - our baby is 10 months old. It can be done little bit earlier but not too much.

You should actually hold off for longer

> In 2018, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) released new recommendations for car seat safety. As part of these recommendations, they removed their previous age-based recommendation that children remain rear facing in car seats until the age of 2.

> The AAP now suggests that children remain rear facing until they reach their rear-facing car seat’s weight/height limits which, for most children, will leave them rear-facing beyond the previous age recommendation.

Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/forward-f...

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#188

Post by nomel »

mannykannot wrote: post #19
PJDK wrote: post #12

Reading through it seems like people are misinterpreting this. By my reading the car has an anti-theft device that was triggered by the installation of seats. There is a remote system to override the anti-theft device, but that doesn't work because it requires mobile reception. It's kind of funny, but this doesn't really tell you anything about the dangers of "smart cars" or anything.

It tells us that the people who are designing these things are not considering some of the most basic issues.

From the original thread [1], which people should probably read:

> The fact it had no signal at the time of the tamper safeguard being triggered meant that remote recovery wasn't an option, even when we moved it into the open. Idk, an extra layer of theft protection I suppose.

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9qn...

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#189

Post by smileysteve »

gambiting wrote: post #26
mannykannot wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tells us that the people who are designing these things are not considering some of the most basic issues.

I think preventing your car from being stolen is an extremely basic issue - it's a risk that exists at the back of your mind constantly when you drive an expensive vehicle, so yeah, I'm glad the car does this. The situation in here is more like "haha, ok, we just need to tow this thing out of the garage and try again" - no big deal.

> it's a risk that exists at the back of your mind constantly when you drive an expensive vehicle

Perhaps due to poor risk analysis or value.

Statistically the Honda Civic and Toyota Camry are much more likely to be stolen; stealing an expensive vehicle is problematic in 1) Security Features 2) Conspicuous to drive 3) Conspicuous to fence 4) Insurance spends more money to find it 5) (in some cases) difficulty to drive.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#190

Post by nomel »

1cvmask wrote: post #4

The bricking shows that all these “smart” cars with remote software control are liable to hacking (and potentially deadly accidents). We should have a choice to turn them off selectively. The worst part is that car companies don’t understand software and digital security. https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig...

This is false.

According to the reddit thread [1], the anti-theft tamper safeguard (no network required) was triggered. Since it was triggered when there was no network connectivity, network connectivity could not be used re-enable the car.

So, no network connectivity was used to disable or enable the car.

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9qn...

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