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Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

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Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#331

Post by efreak »

oxymoran wrote: post #317
newbie578 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You state an excellent point and I would love to see the Apple fanboys argue your point.

I love how people say Apple fanboys like it’s an insult. Is there a legitimate, better option to apple? No because the smartphone market is dominated by google and apple. At least apple pretends to care about privacy. Yes, apple are obviously hypocrites. Still better than google. If there was another viable choice I would happily go with that.

There was webOS. There were other OS in the past, as well. Is Tizen stilla thing for mobile? Having used webOS on the HP touchpad, I still think it had a lot going for it. Either way, Android and iOS are all that stuck, and I think we're far worse off for it.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#332

Post by polote »

What's interesting here, early today the most upvoted comments where very negative towards Apple, and now that the US people have woken up, the most upvoted comments are closer to have a neutral tone.

Actually I was surprised this morning to see Apple criticized on HN (40% of HN visitors use Apple devices, Windows 21 %, Linux 8% and Android 15% ) as it is rarely the case, the explanation is simple, Apple fanboys were sleeping

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#333

Post by jwalgenbach »

oxymoran wrote: post #317
newbie578 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You state an excellent point and I would love to see the Apple fanboys argue your point.

I love how people say Apple fanboys like it’s an insult. Is there a legitimate, better option to apple? No because the smartphone market is dominated by google and apple. At least apple pretends to care about privacy. Yes, apple are obviously hypocrites. Still better than google. If there was another viable choice I would happily go with that.

There is a segment of the Apple consumer-base that appear to think that Apple can do no wrong. It's a cult of personality just like any other, and pointing out the hypocrisy is satisfying for some, if ultimately futile.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#334

Post by tripzilch »

torben-friis wrote: post #304
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or they could make Apple remove the telegram app. Which is effective primarily because there’s no (practical) way to sideload on iOS! This is why I’ve always seen the locked-down nature of the iPhone as a threat to free expression first and foremost. Apple is responsible for setting the system up this way.

I don't fully buy this idea, because I've never seen an app become successfully widespread through side loading. The technical friction is just too high for non technical users. I agree that we need a solution to monopolistic app stores though.

> I don't fully buy this idea

Apple is currently literally being a threat to free expression in a situation where it really matters.

You don't need to buy the idea, but they're doing it.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#335

Post by nix23 »

newbie578 wrote: post #309
latexr wrote: post #259

Tim Cook’s twitter bio[1] has the following: > “Life's most persistent and urgent question is, 'What are you doing for others?'” - MLK Considering this and the HKmap.live[2] situations, I’d say that in his case the answer to that question is “not much”. [1]: https://twitter.com/tim_cook [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKmap.live

I love when hypocrisy like this is exposed, and I would love it even more for Tim Apple to answer that question. Can we start a GoFundMe to have Tim answer it?

>Can we start a GoFundMe to have Tim answer it?

Who do you want to fund? Tim or the Question? Or do you think he should just answer questions if he's paid for it, because Apple has zero responsibility at all...oh right they don't.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#336

Post by random5634 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #261
_RPL5_ wrote: post #102

Here is a source in Russian [0] saying that Apple is asking Telegram to remove messages that de-anonymize Belorussian police members, rather than blocking channels outright. I don't know whether their source is reliable, but here is the relevant snippet (google translate): > Apple says it didn’t require any channels to be removed. But they demanded to immediately remove any information that discloses someone's data o…

Griefing? Belarus is on the brink of civil war. Doxxing regime supporters can easily end up as a "murder todo list" if things heat up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Griefing

And visa versa - mainstream platforms don't seem like the place too do this

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#337

Post by eitland »

afwe wrote: post #132
eitland wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like a problematic ux-er ;-) Visible but disabled items can be important for discoverability. Knowing when and where to apply which ux rules is probably more important than knowing all the rules. FTR: I'm happy to work with what I think are good ux-ers so they certainly do exist.

Visible but disabled items are only useful if they can be enabled in a more-or-less obvious way. Showing a disabled item that you can't enable in any way is bad UX. Am I wrong?

You are right this time and now you know why Telegram put those messages there: to allow users who need those messages to go online on the Internet or swap to an Android phone.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#338

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

dan-robertson wrote: post #234
_RPL5_ wrote: post #102

Here is a source in Russian [0] saying that Apple is asking Telegram to remove messages that de-anonymize Belorussian police members, rather than blocking channels outright. I don't know whether their source is reliable, but here is the relevant snippet (google translate): > Apple says it didn’t require any channels to be removed. But they demanded to immediately remove any information that discloses someone's data o…

One issue is that public attitudes to doxxing vary between places. What is unacceptable in America may be considered more normal elsewhere. In this specific situation there’s a pretty obvious power imbalance where the public do not wear masks and the authorities would be able to track them down and oppress them later (or just do what they currently do and grab them from the streets at the time). The threat of unmaski…

But the whole point here is that this line of reasoning is limited. If Apple were indiscriminately ordering protestor channels to be taken down, we wouldn't accept an excuse that suppressing protestors is "considered more normal" in Belarus, or an argument that the unique context of Belarus means they have no choice but to restrict speech in ways America wouldn't. So if Apple has strong principles against doxxing people, should they really compromise on that just because it'd be good for the protestors if they did?

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#339

Post by jwalgenbach »

qPM9l3XJrF wrote: post #235
_RPL5_ wrote: post #102

Here is a source in Russian [0] saying that Apple is asking Telegram to remove messages that de-anonymize Belorussian police members, rather than blocking channels outright. I don't know whether their source is reliable, but here is the relevant snippet (google translate): > Apple says it didn’t require any channels to be removed. But they demanded to immediately remove any information that discloses someone's data o…

Yeah, I don't see how this is different from Twitter taking down a tweet which doxxes someone. Would people object if Apple told Telegram they had to remove a channel that was being used by white supremacists to coordinate terrorist attacks? The answer to that question matters, because if users in this thread succeed in making iPhones less of a walled garden, terrorists will be able to use their iPhones to coordinate…

This is a false equivalency. One is a group objecting to rigged elections and another is a group that advocates for violence against others based on ethnicity.

Those are very different things, and it is necessary to differentiate between the two.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#340

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

megous wrote: post #202
afwe wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Through what right or means can Apple demand this, though? The App Store is theirs and they will kick you out if they don't like you. Isn't that good enough?

App store may be theirs, but this is like after you install some third party e-mail client on your phone, Apple trying to force their way into telling you what e-mails you can receive, or who you can communicate with. (by proxy) Surely that's not reasonable. What does ownership of the phone mean then?

They could. They have the power to. Reasonable doesn't enter into it. That's why some of us object to their control over access to software for all their customers. I personally will not buy Apple products for this reason.
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