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Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

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Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#211

Post by skohan »

eru wrote: post #185
skohan wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that anti-trust enforcement has been so effectively neutered in the US. This is exactly the type of thing it's designed to protect us from. But I think with the current high bar for anti-trust, it can be argued that Apple is "hurting consumers" through the lock-down of their platform. It's fine that Apple should offer a safe, curated experience of using their devices through the App Store. I'm even fine…

> Even under the current legal framework, I just don't see how it's justified. In general, prices don't need a legal justification. That's a big part of free enterprise. > This is exactly the type of thing it's designed to protect us from. What makes you so optimistic? In practice, complicated laws with lots of reach usually work in favour of the party that can afford more and better lawyers. (Or, sometimes, the part…

> In general, prices don't need a legal justification. That's a big part of free enterprise.

Well it would need a legal justification if the alternative is that Apple would be penalized under anti-trust regulation for using its market share to hurt consumers for its own benefit. Even "free enterprise" operates within a legal framework.

> In practice, complicated laws with lots of reach usually work in favour of the party that can afford more and better lawyers.

I mean this is an incredibly defeatist and cynical view. Don't get me wrong, I'm not overly optimistic that things will change based on the way laws have been applied in the last few decades, but the fact that people see laws as primarily a tool for the powerful - and don't even have an expectation for legal enforcement to operate on behalf of the consumer - seems to me to be a large part of the reason the US is looking more and more like a failed state.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#212

Post by dannyw »

nickpp wrote: post #209

So it was fine when Apple banned Infowars but now it’s different? This is exactly what those free speech advocates meant when talking about slippery slopes: you either support free speech or censure. There is no middle ground. Disclaimer: I think Infowars is pure, evil sh*t.

Exactly. I don’t care if it’s Infowars, if it’s Gab, or if it’s HK protests, or if it’s Belarus protests.

App stores must not be political, even if the politics agree with you.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#213

Post by crossroadsguy »

notRobot wrote: post #20

https://t.me/durov/136 > Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”. Fucking hell, Apple. ---- cough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Ministry_...

I think it's a pure evil move. Seeing Cook indeed hobnobs with the likes of MBS I won't be surprised if there's more to what's visible, especially beneath this veneer of being privacy champions. Esp. considering their entire platform is closed source.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#214

Post by jlokier »

Lammy wrote: post #17
threeseed wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those shows likely to incite violence which may result in people being killed ? Because in Hong Kong similar channels were used to kill police. This isn't a simple question of censorship.

Being killed seems like a luxury compared to what might happen to you if one of these regimes want to arrest you.

What's the objective in pointing that out?

That if you're an innocent, mis-identified person and get killed it's ok because you live in a regime where worse things could happen to you?

That identification videos identify the correct person, or often enough that a few killed innocents is "worth it"?

That it's ok to kill police in general in a bad regime?

That it's ok to kill police who are beating up protestors?

(These points combine: The statistical bias is such that if the wrong person is identified, it will tend to pick a police person who wasn't involved in the scene, rather than a non-police person who wasn't involved.)

(Btw, I think it's up to each person to decide for themselves, if at all possible, if being killed is worse than an alternative. It's a very personal decision.)

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#215

Post by cwhiz »

echelon wrote: post #133
notRobot wrote: post #20

https://t.me/durov/136 > Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”. Fucking hell, Apple. ---- cough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Ministry_...

Please stop worshipping this company. It's not a force for good. They've kicked us out of open computing by locking down the only computer a lot of folks own (iPhone). And now look what kind of shit they can pull because they own the entire stack! This shouldn't be possible! We really have to push against this and hope the DOJ forces all phone providers to allow "side-loading" (what a bizarre term!) The iPhone is a c…

If you don’t like Apple... don’t buy their stuff? It’s that easy.

Just go buy a phone running the market leading OS, Android.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#216

Post by dannyw »

zucker42 wrote: post #56

It's pretty unfortunate that Apple is willing to support an authoritarian regime to the point of requiring an app to censor its users. I wonder how this came to Apple's attention; was it requested by Belarus's government? And I wonder what the consequences of Telegram not complying would be. It's unclear why they would demand this, given that Google seems to not need to make similar demands. This also seems like it e…

It’s likely requested by the Russian government.

Telegram not complying means it gets banned from the App Store.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#217

Post by dannyw »

jarym wrote: post #98

> Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”. Shame on Apple really. Shame on them for creating a walled garden that has become a liability for multiple parties even tho…

Class action lawsuits are dead since binding arbitration agreements.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#218

Post by kossTKR »

summerlight wrote: post #189
kossTKR wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give any examples of this happening? Not doubting at all.

One of the most recent case: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/28/apple-rejects-facebook-app-t...

Interesting. I have always found NDA stuff some of the grosses legal concepts emerging, and in this case it's not even an agreement, it's pure blackmail.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#219

Post by dannyw »

newscracker wrote: post #174

The App Store is unraveling! What has Apple done on Facebook or Twitter? Is the matter that those platforms have some kind of content moderation that answers to governments and Telegram does not (so Apple becomes an intermediary)? With all the talk about how Apple cares about human rights, the CEO and senior management seem to be there as bystanders.

Facebook gets special treatment because if iPhones don’t have Fb, Instagram and WhatsApp, people stop buying iPhones.

Case in point: digital fundraisers on Facebook are not subject to Apple’s 30% tax, via a special COVID exemption until the end of the year.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#220

Post by dannyw »

aero-glide wrote: post #179
newscracker wrote: post #174

The App Store is unraveling! What has Apple done on Facebook or Twitter? Is the matter that those platforms have some kind of content moderation that answers to governments and Telegram does not (so Apple becomes an intermediary)? With all the talk about how Apple cares about human rights, the CEO and senior management seem to be there as bystanders.

We need diversity in App stores. I installed F-droid for android, has almost all the apps I need. Provide the users with choices! You own the hardware, not the company!

Diversity in app stores are good, but keep in mind F-droid chose to censor Gab.
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