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Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

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Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#171

Post by skohan »

echelon wrote: post #133
notRobot wrote: post #20

https://t.me/durov/136 > Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”. Fucking hell, Apple. ---- cough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Ministry_...

Please stop worshipping this company. It's not a force for good. They've kicked us out of open computing by locking down the only computer a lot of folks own (iPhone). And now look what kind of shit they can pull because they own the entire stack! This shouldn't be possible! We really have to push against this and hope the DOJ forces all phone providers to allow "side-loading" (what a bizarre term!) The iPhone is a c…

It's a shame that anti-trust enforcement has been so effectively neutered in the US. This is exactly the type of thing it's designed to protect us from.

But I think with the current high bar for anti-trust, it can be argued that Apple is "hurting consumers" through the lock-down of their platform.

It's fine that Apple should offer a safe, curated experience of using their devices through the App Store. I'm even fine with the App Store having some OS-level integrations which would not be available to 3rd parties. But the App Store should have to compete on its own merits for how it delivers value to the customer - it should not be the only option by fiat. Maybe at the beginning, but not when smartphones are the dominant computing platform and the main way people use software on a daily basis.

The 30% cut which Apple requires is simply not justified for how much value Apple offers to businesses which drive revenue through the App Store. Again, maybe at the beginning, but the App Store no longer offers any meaningful benefit in terms of discoverability. Losing almost 1/3 of revenue out of the gate can make the difference between viability and not for a lot of companies at the margins, meaning this policy costs the user access to all those products which might be able to exist were it not for the "apple tax".

Even under the current legal framework, I just don't see how it's justified.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#172

Post by aero-glide »

ketamine__ wrote: post #166
echelon wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop worshipping this company. It's not a force for good. They've kicked us out of open computing by locking down the only computer a lot of folks own (iPhone). And now look what kind of shit they can pull because they own the entire stack! This shouldn't be possible! We really have to push against this and hope the DOJ forces all phone providers to allow "side-loading" (what a bizarre term!) The iPhone is a c…

Tim Cook is not a good person. Source: The people he engages with as he attempts to increase Apple's market cap. https://vid.alarabiya.net/images/2018/04/07/6f86bd65-aefa-4a...

Is that MBS? Never seen him without the headdress

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#174

Post by newscracker »

The App Store is unraveling! What has Apple done on Facebook or Twitter? Is the matter that those platforms have some kind of content moderation that answers to governments and Telegram does not (so Apple becomes an intermediary)?

With all the talk about how Apple cares about human rights, the CEO and senior management seem to be there as bystanders.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#175

Post by [deleted] »

afwe wrote: post #132
eitland wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like a problematic ux-er ;-) Visible but disabled items can be important for discoverability. Knowing when and where to apply which ux rules is probably more important than knowing all the rules. FTR: I'm happy to work with what I think are good ux-ers so they certainly do exist.

Visible but disabled items are only useful if they can be enabled in a more-or-less obvious way. Showing a disabled item that you can't enable in any way is bad UX. Am I wrong?

[deleted]

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#176

Post by laumars »

echelon wrote: post #133
notRobot wrote: post #20

https://t.me/durov/136 > Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”. Fucking hell, Apple. ---- cough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Ministry_...

Please stop worshipping this company. It's not a force for good. They've kicked us out of open computing by locking down the only computer a lot of folks own (iPhone). And now look what kind of shit they can pull because they own the entire stack! This shouldn't be possible! We really have to push against this and hope the DOJ forces all phone providers to allow "side-loading" (what a bizarre term!) The iPhone is a c…

Isn’t a games console also a computer?

> It's an American device. It should act like it!

I’m guessing you’re speaking about the “freedom” meme but there’s nothing uniquely American about freedom. If anything, capitalism tends to trump “freedom” and any pressures to equal the balance (like government oversight) almost always gets heavily condemned. So from that regard, iPhones (and Apple in general) are very much American entities. Not that I have anything against iPhones (I have one myself) but this is “just business”, as they say.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#177

Post by cageface »

blazespin wrote: post #121
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #6

Through what right or means can Apple demand this, though? Telegram is a platform for user-generated content and it seems odd for Apple to single-out those 3 channels/groups specifically - what about the hundreds of thousands of other objectionable groups on Telegram? And why Telegram in particular? Why doesn't Apple give the same ultimatum to Facebook to pressure them to block access to militant ethnonationalist gro…

To be fair, Telegram is a total nightmare. It's like bitcoin or Tor and dark web, it may facilitate anonymous free speech, but in doing so, it facilitates a helluva lot of crime. There has to be limits on freedom, you can't just be allowed to post bomb making plans on the internet or yelling fire in a crowded theatre

The point is that it should be up to the government to decide what limits should be put on speech in Telegram, not Apple.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#178

Post by oarsinsync »

PureParadigm wrote: post #15
threeseed wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to similar Facebook/Whatsapp groups ? Because they are usually pretty aggressive about acting on inciteful content.

How about we consider any website accessible through Safari? Is Apple going to start blocking users from viewing those?

The opening steps of that are already in place. Apple is already blocking content in safari by default. It’s currently doing so in the name of privacy, and chances are that what it’s currently doing is ultimately user positive.

The mechanism is already in place and ready to be expanded to include anything more as necessary.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#179

Post by aero-glide »

newscracker wrote: post #174

The App Store is unraveling! What has Apple done on Facebook or Twitter? Is the matter that those platforms have some kind of content moderation that answers to governments and Telegram does not (so Apple becomes an intermediary)? With all the talk about how Apple cares about human rights, the CEO and senior management seem to be there as bystanders.

We need diversity in App stores. I installed F-droid for android, has almost all the apps I need.

Provide the users with choices! You own the hardware, not the company!

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#180

Post by kossTKR »

boudin wrote: post #70
saagarjha wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are you forced to follow whatever Apple tells you to do, you’re not allowed to communicate as such because it might make Apple look bad to users who don’t know any better. It’s really a quite inconvenient situation.

That's been a technique that apple have been using quite a bit. Forbid apps to be transparent with their customers around apple rules. This way app users are pissed at the app makers not apple.

Can you give any examples of this happening? Not doubting at all.
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