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The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

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Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#111

Post by shripadk »

panpanna wrote: post #26
ecommerceguy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said to get these Countries to RECOGNIZE each other is a major accomplishment. Downvoting does not accomplish much besides suppress the truth via greyed out text. HN mods should flag this discussion. Sad to see this type of divisive behavior but I'm not surprised. I'm personally excited to see UAE and Israel sitting at a table instead of flinging bombs but I've always been pro peace. Perhaps Obama supporters t…

Sure, but Turkey and Egypt recognized Isreal in 1950 and 1979. Saudi Arabia/Iraq/Syria still do not recognize Israel. In comparison, Bahrain and UAE are tiny countries that already had pretty normal relationship with Israel, just not very official. So an achievement by POTUS, yes. But let's not oversell it. (Not gonna comment more on this, politics make me nervous)

> So an achievement by POTUS, yes. But let's not oversell it.

Redirecting you to my comment here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24737337

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#112

Post by shripadk »

mola wrote: post #32
ecommerceguy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this will cause cognitive dissonance in rabid anti-Trumpers but the fact that this admin has brokered MENA deals to recognize Israel as a Nation is a very positive thing for World Peace. Unlike the constant bombing of MENA by Bush and then by Obama. Disgusting policy really. The Obama win was laughable, why did he get it again? Instead of downvotes can we get some information?

Obama getting the prize wrongfully doesn't make trump more or less suitable. As an Israeli, I tell you, this peace deal is a joke. We've had relations with the UAE for decades, they were never hostile to Israel. It was nothing more than a photo op for Netanyahu. The UAE and Bahrein didn't even send same level representatives. The sent foreign ministers for meeting our prime minister. Seems silly, but it tells how ser…

> As an Israeli, I tell you, this peace deal is a joke

Not a joke but a start. You have to start somewhere and this is the first step towards it.

> Seems silly, but it tells how serious this accord is.

Not silly at all. Peace Accords bind Nations. It has nothing to do with who was present at the signing ceremony. As long as it is accepted by the Nations involved it is as legitimate as they come.

> We've had relations with the UAE for decades, they were never hostile to Israel

Hostility is not just in terms of War. Hostility can even be in terms of who the country votes for in the UN on key issues that concerns Israel. If you look at it that way, India has never been hostile towards Israel. Never waged a War. But we always supported the Palestinian cause. That has started to change because of the development of Israel-India ties with India moving closer to Israel than ever before since 2014. It was because of Modi's visit to Israel and Netanyahu's visit to India. These things might seem silly but this is how diplomacy is carried out. How else would you think a solution can be achieved without waging a big War? Through diplomatic means. For Israel, truly making friends is a big criteria. It helps in putting diplomatic pressure on Israel's adversaries instead of resorting to military options! Right now Israel is using military options because it lacks unanimous support across the World. Nearly half of the countries in the World oppose Israel's moves. Through these Peace Accords, the countries that were on the fence when it came to Israel will now be more enthusiastically involved in achieving final Peace in the region. Because they are now stakeholders too. Once these countries (and many others) join in, pressure will build on Israel's adversaries to come to the table and negotiate a Peace deal. This is how it is done. One small step at a time.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#113

Post by jacobush »

bzbarsky wrote: post #85
altacc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been many different attempts to solve the Israel/Palestine conflict and its many associated issues. Every US president has a go and having yet another attempt doesn’t win anyone awards until real results & a resolution between the parties involved in the conflict is achieved. There was no big win here, Bahrain & UAE already had relationships with Israel, they were not in conflict. At best it can be describ…

I suspect the crux of the disagreement is whether the conflict is "Israel/Palestine", as you label it, or "Israel/Arab", as I suspect crusso labels it. The UAE/Bahrain peace deals are a big step for the latter, and not directly relevant to the former. So if you focus on the former, you are right that "not much has progressed", but that's a matter of what sort of progress you care about. For a long time the two confli…

I have a fear the de-linking of the Israel/Palestine and the Israel/Arab conflicts will lead to Israel completely crush Palestine.

Which will be very unpalatable for the wider Arab community, and suddenly we will be back to square one.

I see no realistic solutions, unfortunately.

As for Trump, I know many who can acknowledge that thankfully he has not started any wars, yet see him as incredibly dangerous to the US, and by extension, the world. When the US shrugs, the world trembles.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#114

Post by shripadk »

metalliqaz wrote: post #76
ThomPete wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You din't find it divisive becauee you agree with a lot of what he says. A lot of people found it divisive and the result was Trump.

Inclusive language does not stop being inclusive just because it angers racists. Stop arguing in bad faith. Obama and Trump both have twitter accounts. Do you really want to start comparing the public record?

> Do you really want to start comparing the public record?

Public record is what they did when they were both in office for the people of the United States. I would definitely compare the two because Trump will win hands down. You are wanting to compare the two Twitter accounts. Tweets don't feed people. Tweets don't solve issues. Tweets don't make policies.

> Inclusive language does not stop being inclusive just because it angers racists.

Since you wanted to compare the two let us start with funding of Historically Black Colleges. Because a "racist" President would never increase funds for HBCUs. Instead, he would ensure that the funding is reduced. Obama in the first two years: $1.43B. Trump in first two years of his office: $1.58B [1].

"And even though we may not be able to fully trust numbers compiled by officials working under partisan directives, there are few budget outlines of any kind which suggest other than what too many of us fear; the guy we love to hate is showing historic love to historically black colleges."

[1]: https://hbcudigest.com/obama-vs-trump-who-did-more-for-hbcus...

“Oh, man … yesterday was great and historic. I’ve been around a long time and I’ve never seen so many black folks gathered in the Oval Office,” said Haynes, who was part of that photo opportunity. He also helped bring together the Trump administration and congressional leaders to discuss areas of collaboration between HBCUs and the federal government.

“With this executive order, we will make HBCUs a priority in the White House — an absolute priority,” Trump said. “A lot of people are going to be angry that they’re not a priority, but that’s OK.”

[2]: https://theundefeated.com/features/trump-signs-executive-ord...

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#115

Post by shripadk »

metalliqaz wrote: post #76
ThomPete wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You din't find it divisive becauee you agree with a lot of what he says. A lot of people found it divisive and the result was Trump.

Inclusive language does not stop being inclusive just because it angers racists. Stop arguing in bad faith. Obama and Trump both have twitter accounts. Do you really want to start comparing the public record?

> Inclusive language does not stop being inclusive just because it angers racists.

Now when Pandemic struck, Trump could have used it as an excuse to defund HBCUs right? That is what a racist would do. On the contrary, he delivered an additional $1.4 Billion through the CARES Act:

"This Administration is committed to the success of HBCUs, Minority Serving Institutions, and the students they serve. Each institution is unique and is an important part of this country's educational fabric," said Secretary DeVos. "By providing additional support to these important institutions, we can help ensure they emerge from this crisis stronger than before. I encourage these institutions, like all others, to use these funds to provide emergency grants to students during this challenging time, and to expand remote learning programs and build IT capacity. These are challenging times, but if we take this opportunity to transform higher education to meet the demands of the 21st century, our nation's students and higher education as a whole will be better for it."

[1]: https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/secretary-devos-deliv...

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#116

Post by ikerdanzel »

rsynnott wrote: post #83
jansan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree. The Nobel Peace Price had its reputation badly damaged when they gave it to Obama for "becoming president while being black and not George W. Bush".

I think it's easy to forget how dicey the nuclear treaty situation had become by the time Obama took office; Obama's commitment to a real replacement for START was actually quite important. That said, that arguably is just getting the prize for not being Bush.

...the prize for not being Bush. It is more like Nobel board hoping to influence him "to" not being Bush. Unfortunately he did, destroying Libya and Syria. He also bomb hospital, killing children. So much for Peace prize. And coming soon next year the full unveiling of Obamagate with the full release of the investigations.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#117

Post by ThomPete »

metalliqaz wrote: post #107
ThomPete wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think Twitter is the right platform to measure that by?

Because it's easiest to search. Please, explain to me how "LIBERATE MICHIGAN" is not divisive.

It easy to search but it doesn't have many of Trumps voters which makes it a useless platform to decide or measure whether Obama was divisive.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#118

Post by tsimionescu »

tim333 wrote: post #109
tsimionescu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the fascists one is a little ambiguous. I believe that he meant exactly what I said, but I admit that other rational people can believe otherwise. But for the second one he has stated 'When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drug…

Not a Trump fan but by "...rapists. And some, I assume, are good people" he no doubt meant some were rapist not all, which is factually correct. Trump says so much bad stuff that twisting his words only really weakens the opposition case.

That expression clearly implies that MOST immigrants are drug dealers, criminals, or rapists - and that he can only assume that a few of them must also be good people (he can't know for sure that any are, though, he can only assume it - implying he has only seen the drug dealers, criminals, and rapists).

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#119

Post by tsimionescu »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #90
tsimionescu wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was America a war torn region before the states united? As far as I know, not by a long shot.

Quite a bit of genocide occurred in the territories, but most of that calmed down before they reached statehood.

The genocide and marginalization against the native population continued well after the union, as far as I know.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2020

#120

Post by tsimionescu »

yostrovs wrote: post #106
tsimionescu wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is commonly believed, yes - it has brought together countries that had been in a bitter war less than 50 years earlier, and may well have preserved the peace.

Pure speculation. Just like the states haven't had a war because they're the United States. Imagine if the states would have become independent countries. I can imagine the endless warfare. Nobel in Peace as clearly deserved as the European States.

Sure, it's all speculation, not claiming otherwise. But this can be said about any historical event that was "prevented" - by definition, it didn't happen, so we can only assume that it could have happened if something didn't stop it.
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