Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive • Hacker News Board

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#151

Post by grumple » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 9:46 AM UTC

liamwire wrote: post #103

chillacy wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to use the apple watch you must have an iphone, which somehow seems worse: https://www.imore.com/can-you-use-your-apple-watch-your-andr...

Critically, if I want to use a smartwatch with an iPhone, I’m not limited to the Apple Watch.

Critically, as an Apple Watch owner, if I want to buy a different phone I will lose access to my watch. Which is the situation I’m actually in right now. I hope it’s clear why this is anticompetitive.

The watch has been a disappointment anyway, so once this phone craps out they are both gone.

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#152

Post by sdfkkksdfsdff » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 9:46 AM UTC

I don't understand why Oculus, being owned by Facebook, should not be allowed to require a Facebook login. I don't like it much, but it is their company. They invested shitloads of money in it, too.

It's also not the only VR headset in town.

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#153

Post by sdfkkksdfsdff » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

franciscop wrote: post #139

I was very excited about the Oculus Quest, was considering buying it and suddenly the Oculus Quest 2 came up. Then I dug deeper and I saw I needed a facebook account (which I don't have nor want). So because I don't have a FB account Oculus/Facebook has lost hundreds of dollars for me. How does that even make sense?

Because you don't want a FB account, you missed out on an incredible VR experience. How does that even make sense?

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#154

Post by grumple » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 9:52 AM UTC

arsome wrote: post #49

Hmm, Xbox/Microsoft, Google/Android, even Apple/iOS... this will be interesting if courts actually back this up at all.

There is a fundamental difference which is that none of those auth methods require you to provide photos, government id, real names, real birthdays, etc. Facebook does. If they spun out their auth as a separate service and didn’t require handing over all your private information, things might be different.

But generally the tide is turning against vertical integration, as it should. Companies using their vast wealth from one industry to then provide free products in another (just until competitors go under) is far too common, as is chaining people to products because they have a product from another category.

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#155

Post by simion314 » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 10:13 AM UTC

jlarocco wrote: post #63

save_ferris wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially related: newly-created Facebook accounts are a whole lot harder to keep up these days if you’re just using them for a single purpose, like following events. I created an account last year to get more socially involved in my community but I didn’t want to post any personal information and my account kept getting disabled unless I added pictures and filled out certain sections of my profile. Not sure if it…

I'm 100% in agreement that a Facebook account shouldn't be required to use an Oculus. But to continue on your tangent, I'm curious what people expect Facebook to do if they don't collect some amount of identifying information. On one hand they have a huge problem with bots, fake likes, and misinformation accounts, and on the other hand people complain about and avoid the steps they take to prevent those accounts. So,…

Disable Shares,Posting, Likes if the account is new or not trusted.

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#156

Post by jmiskovic » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 10:14 AM UTC

I think Quest 2 will be extremely influential device and this decision will shape the market for years to come. The Quest 2 is important because it's being mass-produced at very affordable retail price. It will be the first and most impactfull VR experience for huge amount of people. I only have experience with Quest 1, but it's already apparent that Q2 is improvement in every way while being noticeably cheaper. Q1 was out of stock for most of it's product lifetime. BTW I'm enjoying Q1 quite a lot. It is an open Android platform with no DRM and good support for independent developers.

The VR is merely a playground for AR. A really tiny market that's brewing technology for the post-smartphone revolution. The AR hardware might be some years from now but there are already huge investments in software platform and social features. There are only two relevant competitors: FB with cheap and excellent consumer headset you can buy today, and Apple working on next big thing in shroud of mystery. FB vision is obvious. They want to collect more of your data and also control what you constantly see in AR. Part of this is forcing you to use the FB account that was verified to belong to you, forcing you to give up on your privacy right from start. This translates to enormous amount of marketing money, but also to shaping opinions and controlling emotions. Next generation will likely have eye tracking which will make privacy invasion so much worse, as our eye movement is mostly subconscious and reveals our interests and affinities.

Many of us are sceptical of our smartphones working against us, tracking location and actions. Imagine a device mere centimetres from your brain doing the same, but having also access to eye movements and maybe EEG readings. If FB manages to convince general population that lack of privacy is in best of their interest, we'll have some dire times ahead of us.

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#157

Post by olemartinorg » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 10:24 AM UTC

dorkinspace wrote: post #18

shajznnckfke wrote: post #6

The Xbox requires that you have a Microsoft account, right? This seems like an inconvenience but I have a hard time understanding why it’s worth Congress’s time. Isn’t the world full of products that have to be registered by making an account in some system or another? I guess I could understand if somebody didn’t have internet access and wants to use Oculus, but they wouldn’t be able to download any games either eve…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe microsoft doesn't care if you have multiple accounts while facebook will ban "non real" accounts. This is the part that makes it anticompetitive, I would imagine.

The anticompetitive part refers to social VR. Today we have multiple social VR apps (Rec Room, Altspace, Bigscreen and more). While Facebook aims to be a big player in social VR they're not there yet; their Facebook Horizons app is still in closed beta.

Requiring a Facebook login to use the Quest puts the competition at an immediate disadvantage, as they'll have to use their own login or submit to Facebook login as well, often at the cost of cross-platform compatibility. Onboarding friction will always be less with the app where you already have an account.

Facebook told Bigscreen developers to join Facebook or "be crushed": https://twitter.com/DShankar/status/1295825809496629248

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#158

Post by raxxorrax » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 10:27 AM UTC

jmiskovic wrote: post #156

I think Quest 2 will be extremely influential device and this decision will shape the market for years to come. The Quest 2 is important because it's being mass-produced at very affordable retail price. It will be the first and most impactfull VR experience for huge amount of people. I only have experience with Quest 1, but it's already apparent that Q2 is improvement in every way while being noticeably cheaper. Q1 w…

VR has been a nice toy but the acceptance and content was underwhelming. I own a quest 1 since I impulse bought it in retail. After finding out what it was I ordered a rift s which I use more frequently. The software package is actually decent, but the lock-in is repulsive.

With facebooks decision both devices will certainly be scraped soon.

I probably need to make sure my oculus account isn't automatically migrated...

To be honest I think the current VR trend died like the last ones, maybe it was a bit more successful. The devices and the experience are nice at first, but not suitable for prolonged use.

I think AR is a complete separate technology that has some overlapping problems, but are still too different to make a prediction.

I think VR would have been more successful if we had a common base for different devices. My believe in tech dystopia is severely dampened if it relies on VR.

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#159

Post by raxxorrax » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 10:33 AM UTC

culturestate wrote: post #61

save_ferris wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially related: newly-created Facebook accounts are a whole lot harder to keep up these days if you’re just using them for a single purpose, like following events. I created an account last year to get more socially involved in my community but I didn’t want to post any personal information and my account kept getting disabled unless I added pictures and filled out certain sections of my profile. Not sure if it…

I don't use FB personally, but I needed access to Business Manager for some client work so I created an account using my work email and tried to sign up for BM. They immediately locked the account, asked for a copy of my ID, and then permanently banned that account after I provided it . I have no idea why, there's no mechanism for appeal, and I can't even submit a request to have the image of my ID removed because th…

Ask your client to supply the account. I do that for social media sites since I don't use most of them. Don't actually know about TOS, but it hasn't been a problem and certainly isn't mine.

Re: Report may suggest that login requirement for Oculus Quest 2 is anticompetitive

#160

Post by raxxorrax » Fri, Oct 09, 2020, 10:44 AM UTC

sdfkkksdfsdff wrote: post #153

franciscop wrote: post #139

I was very excited about the Oculus Quest, was considering buying it and suddenly the Oculus Quest 2 came up. Then I dug deeper and I saw I needed a facebook account (which I don't have nor want). So because I don't have a FB account Oculus/Facebook has lost hundreds of dollars for me. How does that even make sense?

Because you don't want a FB account, you missed out on an incredible VR experience. How does that even make sense?

It is fun but not worth integrating Facebook into your life. Better use the alternatives. Sadly I own 2 devices from oculus. Will use them until they don't work anymore and then they are headed to scrap. Would have a bad conscience selling the devices and maybe that doesn't even work.