Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 107 posts

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#81

Post by adamcharnock »

jamexcb wrote: post #69
adamcharnock wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been living in rural Portugal for a little while now, and these are some excellent comments. Especially the first point. I'd also add that there is still a Heroin problem, albeit diminished. It is not unusual to see someone walking though the local village, out-of-their head drunk at 9am on a Wednesday. It isn't alcohol though, it's Heroin. But it is also an economically poor area. The weather is amazing and the…

"I've been living in rural Portugal for a little while now" Not long enough! I'm from Castelo Branco and coffee is not $0.15... not even a "carioca de limão". Needle exchange program started 1993 along with other programs like "metadoda" to help addiction. With a needle they also provided condoms and an open door if you wanted help. During the 80's you could find needles everywhere, people stealing from their own par…

I stand corrected. It's good to hear from another HNer in the region.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#82

Post by sergiosgc »

hypnotist wrote: post #54
adamcharnock wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been living in rural Portugal for a little while now, and these are some excellent comments. Especially the first point. I'd also add that there is still a Heroin problem, albeit diminished. It is not unusual to see someone walking though the local village, out-of-their head drunk at 9am on a Wednesday. It isn't alcohol though, it's Heroin. But it is also an economically poor area. The weather is amazing and the…

starting ISP - that is very cool! What about Portuguese language ? do you need to able to speak to be accepted there ?

In urban settings, most Portuguese natives 50 or younger speak English (fluency varies, naturally). I can't really speak for rural areas. In order to integrate socially, however, you'll find it's easier if you speak Portuguese -- i.e. if planning to stay for a few years, learning the language is a good investment.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#83

Post by pessimizer »

varispeed wrote: post #78
at_a_remove wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dealers are typically not cutting their products with HIV or hepatitis virii.

They cut drugs with various substances to increase volume and / or perceived strength, and that can cause health issues just as dangerous or even death by accidental overdose. In fact the number of overdose deaths have increased in Portugal since that policy has been implemented. Another flaw of this policy is that when users don't have to spend money on paraphernalia, they will have more money to spend on drugs. So…

> They cut drugs with various substances to increase volume and / or perceived strength, and that can cause health issues just as dangerous or even death by accidental overdose.

This is true, but you're saying something different than what you started off saying.

I agree with you that the government should be supplying heroin to addicts, and if you're decriminalizing drug usage, there's no reason that you shouldn't be doing this. A doctor having the ability to monitor addicts under their care would give us the means to keep them happy and productive, and to make sure they can get off the drug when they're willing to risk the effort.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#84

Post by HarryHirsch »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #40
Synaesthesia wrote: post #16

There was a RAND study many years ago which showed that, from a pure cost benefit point of view, the best way to deal with drugs is through education and treatment, not policing and punishment. Eg Americans today smoke a lot less tobacco and drink less coffee too. Education works!

There's an anti-caffeine 'education' programme in the states? For real?

When the physician diagnoses you with caffeine abuse when you drink 1.5 liters of coffee over the day, yes.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#85

Post by sergiosgc »

AlexTrask wrote: post #18

During the last years Portugal is doing a great job in a lot of fields like education or economy. A great example for southern Europe countries

Thanks. It's good to hear this opinion from the outside. The Portuguese are, as a group, pretty pessimistic. I often have to state that, in '74, when the dictatorship ended, we were massively illiterate. The education evolution is extraordinary, albeit inevitably slow: it takes a couple generations to change the education profile of a country.

It is a country far from perfect, but the people are nice, the cuisine is excellent, the weather is amazing and it is consistently moving in the right direction.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#86

Post by opiate_recovery »

eecc wrote: post #30
opiate_recovery wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bupe + naloxone doesn't give any buzz and it blocks you from getting high from other opiates. i guess maybe if you were opiate naive maybe it would IDK. but that would be really dumb to take if you want to get high take the real shit Definitely can from methadone especially mixed with a benzo for sure people sell it but they're going to use with or without it. studies have shown that those who don't get long time sob…

Methadone is even more dangerous than the real stuff: just withdraw syndrome can be fatal.

yeah it's gross. i'm 100% for just giving actual pure opiates out for free to addicts that don't yet want to get clean.

in a lot of ways it would be safer. clean, known dose, less theft to pay for drugs, less violence no cartels

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#87

Post by joaomval »

varispeed wrote: post #42

Not sure why this policy is touted as a champion example how to deal with the drug "problem". Only thing it does it reduces exposure of drug consumers to law enforcement harassment while at the same time helps organised crime making more money. I would rather look into why some people promote this and maybe look into their finances. Drug use is natural for intelligent beings and prohibition of that is like trying to…

How are the drug dealers making more money if there are alot less people consuming?

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#88

Post by varispeed »

pessimizer wrote: post #83
varispeed wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They cut drugs with various substances to increase volume and / or perceived strength, and that can cause health issues just as dangerous or even death by accidental overdose. In fact the number of overdose deaths have increased in Portugal since that policy has been implemented. Another flaw of this policy is that when users don't have to spend money on paraphernalia, they will have more money to spend on drugs. So…

> They cut drugs with various substances to increase volume and / or perceived strength, and that can cause health issues just as dangerous or even death by accidental overdose. This is true, but you're saying something different than what you started off saying. I agree with you that the government should be supplying heroin to addicts, and if you're decriminalizing drug usage, there's no reason that you shouldn't b…

Many people who take drugs lead happy and productive life and use them as a tool and this approach doesn't seem to address why people reach for drugs in the first place. That's why I believe this policy is dishonest.

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#89

Post by joaofs »

kyrers wrote: post #49

This is one of the things that makes me proud to be Portuguese. Also, does anyone remember the name of the doctor that started this whole movement? I think the first name is João, but I can't remember or find it. I might be tripping, pun intended.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%A3o_Castel-Branco_Goul%C...

Re: Pointers from Portugal on Addiction and the Drug War

#90

Post by sidkshatriya »

justinclift wrote: post #15
yborg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current system in the US is a virtuous cycle - companies like Purdue make tens of billions creating a huge population of addicts, and then the resulting crime justifies the expansion of heavily militarized police to wage war "on drugs", which then can funnel the losers of the battle into a for-profit prison system. Imagine the profit potential of a nation of 150 million junkies. Actually solving the problem costs…

> virtuous cycle That example would probably be called a vicious cycle, rather than a virtuous one. ;)

I think the word "virtuous" was used sarcastically.

And it is virtuous from the perspective of those entities profiting from the above cycle...

Post reply on HN