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Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

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Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very simple. If it's harder for foreign people to become postdocs/profs in the US, the quality of US research will fall. Quickly.

Citation heavily needed here. I find it hard to believe on face value that foreign researchers are necessarily better than US researchers; especially given the number of both foreign and domestic university graduates from U.S universities is much less than the available postdoc and professorship appointments in STEM.

A lot of the best academics are foreign born. You could look at Nobel prize winners for example.

But you have to also remember that the current group of academics came out of PhD programs in the 1970s. That was a time of expansion in academia. These folks are just about to retire. On the other side of this, I think the universities walk a fine line with respect to graduate student admissions between foreigners and US citizens.

The fact that we bring in foreign graduate students from foreign undergraduate programs either means that our current system is not producing applicants of sufficient caliber who then apply or it is not economically viable. In that sense there is evidence that graduate student research stipends are depressed. Is this due to foreign competition?

There is some anecdotal evidence to this in that the majority of CS undergrads get a job ratherhe than pursue a PhD etc... b/c of the salary differences. Foreigners have to get a masters at a minimum to achieve better odds in the H1B lottery. And after they graduate from a US masters program, they can work at a US company for a couple years anyway.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#562
Can somebody reconcile these points, they seem to be conflicting:

- they set the new threshold for acceptable wages at 95% of the distribution for that position

- they say that this will affect 1/3 of applicants

- they say that h1b workers are underpaid

Those can’t all be true at the same time can they? If 2/3 of applicants are in the upper 5%, they’d certainly be earning more and not depressing salaries.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#563
post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>H1B visas are very important for foreign students in these fields particularly those hoping to pursue careers in academia. I don't care. It's not the US's job to educate the world. Until someone helps me get into university again I don't give a rat's ass about foreign students coming in. Those students are typically in the higher earning income brackets for their countries.

Buddy, you gotta help yourself get into and pay for university. Why should a university give a "rat's ass" about you when a foreign student will pay more?

Exactly the rub then, isn't it? I got the token half off 200% markup while I watched my graduating HS class get nearly free rides. I had similar grades, but was mostly straight A (but in harder honors classes) and was white and male.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#564
In my mind, the benefits of the program have been mostly met. We've helped other countries increase their IT capability. Of course the offshoring of work will only increase with this change. Companies had been bringing work _back_ to the U.S. and now they will be moving it once again to offshore locations. It's not going to do what the administration thinks it will do...unless they started some nonsensical regulatory penalty against offshoring.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#565
post #539

I feel like this thread has a lot of bias coming from bad experiences in the computer science field. While I do understand the bad practices of many tech companies, I think the picture is very different when you look at careers in other STEM fields, such as biology, chemistry, and physics. H1B visas are very important for foreign students in these fields particularly those hoping to pursue careers in academia. H1B vi…

>H1B visas are very important for foreign students in these fields particularly those hoping to pursue careers in academia. I don't care. It's not the US's job to educate the world. Until someone helps me get into university again I don't give a rat's ass about foreign students coming in. Those students are typically in the higher earning income brackets for their countries.

Sorry. I was going to type something rude. The thing is, by "educating the world", the world educates us. We need to do a better job at helping students like you pay for college, but this does not mean that we close our doors to everyone else.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#566
post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>H1B visas are very important for foreign students in these fields particularly those hoping to pursue careers in academia. I don't care. It's not the US's job to educate the world. Until someone helps me get into university again I don't give a rat's ass about foreign students coming in. Those students are typically in the higher earning income brackets for their countries.

Student visas are essentially free money for the countries that provide them: unversities charge them more; the students tend to be rich and spend a lot; a lot of students immediately return home and don't actually take any local jobs. There's no downsides.

There are limited seats. At the extreme end you have medical school, where foreign students likely are taking away a position from a capable citizen.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#567

> Under the new rule, the required wage level for entry-level workers would rise to the 45th percentile of their profession’s distribution, from the current requirement of the 17th percentile. The requirement for the highest-skilled workers would rise to the 95th percentile, from the 67th percentile. This is pretty abstract and probably the most important detail. How much would a software engineer have to make to qua…

You can use BoL statistics for this. In the SF-Oakland-Hayward area, 90th percentile is $207k. 95th is probably north of $250k.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#568
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: wouldn’t that be leaving less jobs open for Americans? As an American myself, I want to see my fellow Americans getting good jobs over people from other countries.

> As an American myself, I want to see my fellow Americans getting good jobs over people from other countries How many of your fellow citizens do you know who have the skills to get a good job and don't get one because of foreign competition? All I know is companies having trouble hiring really good people.

I interviewed at a bay area tech firm and out of 30 candidates there were maybe 3-4 Americans including myself.

I know multiple Americans who are good software developers with good credentials who would be qualified for that job and similar but never got them.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#569

I see a lot asking for the specific salary numbers but no answers. I believe (could be wrong) that the required wage increase for old->proposed new H1B requirements changes would be close to the below examples: 1)Software Developer in Chicago - Old $71k->New $105k 2)Software Developer in San Francisco - Old $96k->New $145k My Opinion: 1. Free trade is generally good. That includes things, people and ideas. But the ef…

That's just the base pay right?

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#570

I finally agree with something this administration is doing. This is a solid move. H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. I just hope the new administration don't role back these changes. Typically when a n…

> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) I don't see this exactly. I have worked with multiple, brilliant visa holders. Many of them have moved on to bigger and better things. Presumably paying a huge amount in taxes for the privilege. Most software developers I know are not making what I would deem suppressed wages, especially in the current conditions (and I don't have an SV job). Most firms…

This isn’t going to have any impact on the number of H1B visas that are awarded. There’s a cap at 85k/year, and most applications get rejected. This is just going to result in the available 85k/year slots being awarded to the intended pool of high-skilled industry specialists, rather than those people being swamped out by a mass of applications from companies that see this as an opportunity to hire cheap labor. I have had a colleague who was probably making $200,000+/year sent back to his native country because all the king’s horses and all the king’s men (and all the king’s immigration lawyers too...) couldn’t secure them a continuation of their work visa.
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