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Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

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Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#521
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I am an immigrant myself (in Australia) and I am in favour of strict regulation. Skilled migration schemes should bring in skilled people, I've seen many people migrating on a skilled visa only to end up making a living as taxi drivers.

Some people ending up as taxi drivers actually have skills; their skilled visa isn't based on lies. They are just not able to continue in their field in the new country for whatever reason. Their accreditation is not recognized, or they don't interview well or whatever. Meanwhile, there are bills to pay and food to put on the table.

Of course, I didn't mean to deny that, actually I was out of my field for some time at one point, and I was working as a waiter to just to pay the bills. On the other hand, I've seen people on skilled visa who never actually worked a day in their nominated occupation.

My previous comment is more related to the fact that some migrants that follow the rules, may suffer from the fact that other migrants don't - for example at first my wife could not join me in Australia, because she comes from a country which had a high number of irregular applications in the past and for this reason that country is now considered "higher risk".

For this reason, many migrants are actually in favour of stricter regulations.

This fact is often not evident if you're not a migrant yourself, that's why I wanted to bring it up.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#522

I finally agree with something this administration is doing. This is a solid move. H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. I just hope the new administration don't role back these changes. Typically when a n…

Curious, you didn't agree with the ME work that got 3 nobel peace prize nominations?

I don't think we disagree with it, it just isn't very significant. A couple of city states agreeing to recognize Israel? Ok, a nice step forward, but it doesn't seem very substantial or that a real solution is in the works.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is really bad. Families are going to get told to leave. I’m surprised that there is no discussion on this thread about the impact to people who haven’t done anything wrong. It's not a moral issue (except for the big H-1B mills that are gaming the system.) But nothing has changed: these are not an offer of citizenship. They are temporary work visas with no guarantees: an opportunity to do temporary specialty wo…

The decision would be ok in most other countries, where the land is some ethnic group's birthright. America, however, is unique in that it's everyone's birthright. The only reason most educated people don't support totally open borders is because there's so much poverty outside the US, but H-1B holders are not poor.

Boe is America everyones birthright more than Chile or australia?

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#524
post #449
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a high school graduate and a self-taught developer. I got hired by Microsoft as a software engineer to the Microsoft Windows Core OS team based on my skills with an H-1B. I made Microsoft millions of dollars with my work. I’m now writing a book on software development published by Manning Books. None of that would have happened if such a criteria existed. That policy doesn’t make any sense at all.

It makes sense insofar as it's designed to reduce the odds of successfully obtaining an H1B. Remember, this was shepherded by Stephen Miller and others in the administration whose explicit aim is reducing immigration by every lever available.

How would this reduce immigration? 85k people will still move to US from H1B every year after these changes, it just will be different 85k people from before unless they change the number.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#525

I feel like this thread has a lot of bias coming from bad experiences in the computer science field. While I do understand the bad practices of many tech companies, I think the picture is very different when you look at careers in other STEM fields, such as biology, chemistry, and physics. H1B visas are very important for foreign students in these fields particularly those hoping to pursue careers in academia. H1B vi…

> H1B visas are very important for foreign students in these fields particularly those hoping to pursue careers in academia.

Academia is a great example of how opening up a domestic job market to The Entire World suppresses wages and drives competition for relatively modest paying jobs through the roof.

If every job market in the US worked like the Academic job market, the country would be hell on earth.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my view, we can never not have a shortage of talent when it comes to scientific disciplines - at any pricepoint. The beauty of bringing more researchers to the country is that they eventually help create as many or more jobs than they "take".

I think you meant to say there will never be an excess of talent? (If I’m reading your comment correctly)

Yes, sorry for the double-negative

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#527
I see a lot asking for the specific salary numbers but no answers. I believe (could be wrong) that the required wage increase for old->proposed new H1B requirements changes would be close to the below examples:

1)Software Developer in Chicago - Old $71k->New $105k

2)Software Developer in San Francisco - Old $96k->New $145k

My Opinion:

1. Free trade is generally good. That includes things, people and ideas. But the effects of immigration policies are very uneven throughout society.

Imagine if the US had 200 qualified TV meteorologists. If the US opens its borders to unlimited TV meteorologists from the developing country of Meteoroligistan, what would the effects be? It's pretty clear that the news networks would be able to hire cheaper meteorologists. Because the meteorologists are cheaper, the news networks would also hire more of them. TV viewers would then get better, more frequent weather forecasts. The networks and the consumers win! But conventional wisdom says that the original 200 qualified meteorologists here lose.

But I kind of think conventional wisdom may be wrong. I'm not sure there aren't significant second order effects. With so many meteorologists, maybe the US becomes the world's capital of TV weather people. Maybe because of that, new weather companies are formed and new opportunities arise for those original 200. This really seems to be what has happened in the technology industry.

2.

It seems completely dumb bring in some of the most talented students from abroad, train them at our universities and then send them home. H1B is primarily how these students stay in the country. Without H1B most of these bright students will go elsewhere after graduation.

3.

And for the humanity of the H1B program. I'm mixed...

The worst parts about being in the H1B program: uncertainty, stamping process, delays, the constant fear of losing a job and being kicked out within weeks - serve no benefit at all for any side.

But to my most controversial thought which I have no data to support. I see many H1B workers who feel entitled to so much from the US without feeling any sense of gratefulness back to the US. Unlike many of our Grandparents who immigrated here and who seemed to feel grateful for their new country - I get the feeling many H1B workers+current immigrants are here just because it's a good place to make some cash. They don't take the time to appreciate what this country is and what it has given them. Maybe that's fair given that the H1B program also seems to view them as temporary labor.

To the H1B holders who have been here for years, had children here, bought a house and just yearn to be part of the American dream - I'm sorry our country hasn't given you the stability that you desired when you arrived.

[1] https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?area=1698...

[2] https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?area=4186...

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see the "problem" here. Most academia STEM jobs are incredibly competitive, postdocs less so than professorships but for fundamental science it is nearly indisputable that academia is flush with labour. If universities deem it too hard to raise postdoc wages across the board (or for specific foreign students) due to a lack of grant funding then they will still have ample choice of American students who go o…

It's very simple. If it's harder for foreign people to become postdocs/profs in the US, the quality of US research will fall. Quickly.

> If it's harder for foreign people to become postdocs/profs in the US, the quality of US research will fall. Quickly.

I sincerely believe exactly the opposite. The best and brightest in the USA avoid research academia because the quality of life is terrible and the pay is below average. Like, "all my students make more in their first year than I make with a PhD and 20 years of successful research" is a common lament among CS profs everywhere outside of the top tier of R1.

Meanwhile, the "graduate school as a ticket into the country" incentive structure creates a lot of pathological behavior among the foot soldiers of academia.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#529
post #440

Link to DHS press release: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/10/06/department-homeland-secu... Probably a better link than the WSJ submission – even though I'm a subscriber, I want the facts, and the facts seem to be hard to find As a matter of fact, I still haven't found the actual "interim final rule" (an oxymoron if I've ever seen one), so if anyone has a link, I'd be immensely grateful EDIT: Here's the unpublished ru…

There are two unpublished rules. DHS rule that you mention ( https://www.federalregister.gov/public-inspection/2020-22347... ; goes in effect in 60 days) and DOL rule establishing the percentiles ( https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ETA/oflc/pdfs/DOL-Int... ; goes in effect this week).

That is insanely complicated. I know it would cost a lot of governmemt jobs to simplify, but, why not just a lottery for a set number? Or a set salary floor?

One thing I don’t understand is the ridiculously low “entry level” wage set at 17%. Those are the jobs we need to protect the most to get disadvantaged americans into the pipeline. 17% is the zone of broad mis-classification, like a ‘computer systems analyst’ that works at the library, or academic jobs, or sweat equity workers.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#530

I feel like this thread has a lot of bias coming from bad experiences in the computer science field. While I do understand the bad practices of many tech companies, I think the picture is very different when you look at careers in other STEM fields, such as biology, chemistry, and physics. H1B visas are very important for foreign students in these fields particularly those hoping to pursue careers in academia. H1B vi…

bias coming from bad experiences in the computer science field https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2020-H1B-Visa-Category.as... It isn't bias, just look at the H1B distribution, it heavily biased to the CS/IT space. Like for every possible biologist you are imagining, there probably 100 IT/CS guys coming in. I'd love to have the biologists and chemists come in, but the big IT consultancies are massively abusing the sy…

The US needs way more software engineers than is has, and sky-high salaries are the evidence of this. I think we should make it easier for people to come and work in the US.

The existing H1B system works pretty well for employers and employees. When I hear people describe H1B immigrants as somehow taken advantage of, their experience seems far different than mine (I have never seen people mistreated by the system).

The idea that this system makes it harder for native software engineers seems crazy to me. I know many software engineers and both the great ones and the terrible ones have no problem finding work.

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