Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some people don't have that privilege. Ever known someone that works two jobs trying to make ends meet? You don't have a choice except to drive home from work.
Take the bus
Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
181–190 of 455 posts
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…
> Please don't get behind the wheel if you're drowsy. I know two people with the issue that GP is talking about, and it's not what you're talking about. They're perfectly alert when they get behind the wheel. They get drowsy on longer drives like 1hr+, which is why any time we do road trips I drive for them. And all that 'pull over and take a power nap' bullshit doesn't work. It's not grounded in any science to start…
If people think that #3 is acceptable, they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
In some states your medical condition would prevent you from getting (or renewing) a driver's license. You need to talk to a doctor immediately because you're an active risk to other people on the road.
See my comment in the other thread.
Mostly just doing something physically tiring and having a full stomach, plus being in a monotonous 1-2 hour drive is a recipe for sleep.
What you are describing still suggests an underlying medical condition or extreme indifference to the safety of others. I was being generous and assuming you were not deliberately being indifferent to the well-being other drivers.
It's not normal to fall asleep driving after only a few hours of strenuous activity followed by food.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if? You need you driver license for your job, without you will lose everything . You already know that this is not something the doctor can easily help you with (e.g. caused by overwork or because you already visited the doctor). Sure it's kinda wrong, but most people would just continue driving, especially in countries with no good social net where permanently losing your job can easily lead to it really messin…
You need you driver license for your job, without you will lose everything. This is why they provide ID cards that do not grant driving privileges. And why public transportation exists.
Our society puts so many people in impossible binds. This discussion needs a great deal more empathy for them.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Please don't get behind the wheel if you're drowsy. I know two people with the issue that GP is talking about, and it's not what you're talking about. They're perfectly alert when they get behind the wheel. They get drowsy on longer drives like 1hr+, which is why any time we do road trips I drive for them. And all that 'pull over and take a power nap' bullshit doesn't work. It's not grounded in any science to start…
If it's dangerous for you to drive, don't drive. It's as simple as that. If you can't stay alert enough for more than an hour, don't drive for more than an hour. If people think that #3 is acceptable, they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection.
People do potentially deadly risk reward calculus all the time. And of all potentially deadly things that people regularly do to crack down on, this one would have a pretty huge negative ROI for society. This issue impacts a non-trivial percentage of the population. You can't tell them all to change jobs or move their houses to be within whatever travel time limit. This purist notion of 'they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection' crumbles at the most trivial examination when you consider that you're talking about leaving millions of people jobless or in significantly worse quality of life conditions, while also completely reshuffling the housing markets and zoning. And even then, sometimes events will come up that force them to take that chance regardless, such as family emergencies.
Rather than this purist isolated-logic bullshit that would probably crash the economy if seriously enforced because you have absolutely failed to consider the first and second order effects of what you're suggesting, we actually have a viable tech solution instead.
I'm going to guess that most people who share this viewpoint are either high income earners living in a bubble who don't know what real life is like for most of the population, or are logical purists looking at this issue in isolation and not accounting for what life is like for most of the population. Life for most of the population is working paycheck to paycheck at whatever job you can get in order to make ends meet and keep your kids fed, and living in whatever housing you can get that doesn't make it impossible to get enough sleep to physically keep living due to long commute times. Being prevented from driving would absolutely destroy most affected families. You're going to do a lot more damage to society by preventing all those affected from driving than by doing nothing and letting it contribute to a small percentage of the road toll, which in itself is an insignificant percentage of the total death toll. Which is why every country on the planet has done nothing more drastic than awareness campaigns, despite being aware of this issue.
Really, this is where this entire discussion becomes moot. Fatigue and microsleep as a cause of road fatalities are a well studied issue that every developed nation is aware of and has done the calculus on. And not a single one of them decided to ban those affected from driving, because the calculus of that policy results in a massive net COST, not gain. And that calculus shifts even further now that we have fairly cheap car technology available to mitigate the issue. When you think through all this, the only conclusion is 'ban affected people from driving' is moronic and does significantly more harm than good.
tl;dr: you'll save more lives by replacing a single coal power plant with renewable energy than by implementing your policy. And you won't destroy the lives of millions of people and potentially crash the economy in the process. And there's already a viable solution on market that mitigates it almost entirely anyway. Pick your battles.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#186Comments on the site itself are pure gold as some are pointing out the various (mostly humorous) events that are not being actively tracked with their driver-facing camera. I will try to compile this list below: - DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_SIDE - DRIVER_MISSING - DRIVER_PICKING_BOOGERS - DRIVER_SEAT_FULLY_RECLINED - DRIVER_SNORING - DRIVER_SHAVING - DRIVER_VAPING - DRIVER_LIVESTREAMING - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP - DRIVER_AP…
I just assumed that Tesla is monitoring the driver to detect surprise.
I also assume that Tesla's awesome sauce onboard AI is running a simulation. For both the driver and other vehicles. Make predictions, gather actuals, continuously try to narrow the delta. Forward anything really weird up to the mother ship for detailed analysis.
Knowing when the driver is surprised would be a pretty good signal. If both the driver and the simulation are surprised, then the simulation could infer which events were way out of scope.
I have no reason, data, or insight for my conjecture.
It's just how I'd do it. And would account for why the onboard computer is so beefy.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No amount of money makes up for human lives Trivially untrue since you can save one life for under $1000 but almost everyone with $1000 will keep it rather than save the life - revealing that $1000 is worth more than an arbitrary human life.
Just out of curiosity, how do I save one life for $1000?
They have more detailed information elsewhere. They are generally trustworthy. Of course I boosted the cost (based on memory) a little, and literalized the value (the truth is that each additional mosquito net has a marginal reduction in the probability of a child contracting and then dying of malaria).
And it looks like I made two errors:
* I had a memory of an older model - the newer one makes it more expensive
* I misremembered the optimal strategy (it isn't anti-malaria, it's Deworm the World at $1003 / child under age 5 saved).
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#188Hah, if the main barrier to autopilot for cars is liability and insurance, passive biometric monitoring of the driver is certainly one way to shift liability around. The real feature should just be a button that shifts insurance liability to Tesla for the period of the autopilot engagement and charges you a floating premium for it based on traffic conditions per mile/km while the autopilot is on. The real problem is…
Hm... are you suggesting that Tesla's motivation here might be to develop a logging system to defend itself against liability claims by demonstrating that the driver was not paying attention, as opposed to a system to take measures at the time to prevent the crash? I would regard doing the former, while not the latter, to be deeply unethical, as, at least in my book, motive matters. I am not saying thet I expect Tesl…
1) in case future regulation requires "monitoring if the driver is paying attention to the road"
and
2) for their robo-taxi service that might or might not come out within the next 5 years as Elon says (hint: it will not)
I own a Tesla and would love if this internal camera were to be available to Sentry mode/saved with dashcam footage (for insurance reasons, internal dashcams are great for strengthening the driver's case), but that's not possible currently.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You shouldn't be driving. Period. what a stunningly pretentious and ignorant thing to say. reasons to be tired and drive: rotating shiftwork, working multiple jobs, caring for a newborn, caring for the sick. that covers millions of people, off the top of my head, without doing any research. and those are only the most black-and-white examples. more ambiguous cases include: driving from physical activity like OP men…
> "You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep!" is an absurd thing to say. No it isn't? We expect drivers to be able to react to situations that can arise when your driving a ton of metal and plastic. 24 hours w/o sleep is equivalent to having a BAC ~0.1%; well above the legal limit. Sure; most people aren't staying up 24 hours and going for a cross-country road trip, but you need to…
Unless we first institute livable wages with sane working hours and paid commute time along with free childcare.
So that survival does not demand that people abuse their bodies with lack of sleep.
agreeing that externalities like house work, parenting, commuting exist, have cost, and need to be considered in a viable economy could be a great step.
Doughnut economics is one such approach.
https://www.ted.com/talks/kate_raworth_a_healthy_economy_sho...
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#190One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…
What it should do is continue to aggressively lane keep, switch on emergency flashers, and sound progressively louder alarms until you wake up, but NEVER stop lane keeping, even as the car slows down below 40mph. It should lane keep all the way down to 0 and keep sounding the alarms.
What does Tesla do if you actually fall asleep and ignore the warnings?