Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 455 posts

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#151

Post by wcoenen »

renewiltord wrote: post #52
lm28469 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real feature should just be a button that shifts insurance liability to Tesla for the period of the autopilot engagement and charges you a floating premium for it based on traffic conditions per mile/km while the autopilot is on. No amount of money makes up for human lives. You can pay a premium of $1mil per mile, if the car end up smashing into a family car at 80mph because the system was fooled by a shadow or…

> No amount of money makes up for human lives Trivially untrue since you can save one life for under $1000 but almost everyone with $1000 will keep it rather than save the life - revealing that $1000 is worth more than an arbitrary human life.

Just out of curiosity, how do I save one life for $1000?

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#152

Post by rightbyte »

orbital-decay wrote: post #123
ogre_codes wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Mostly I just learned to recognize when I'm getting tired and pull over and take a nap which is a massive help. Also, it's pretty uncommon for me to drive solo anymore so it's far less of an issue. Oddly, it was a bigger issue when I was younger. It hasn't happened to me in quite a few years, but the awareness of it has lingered, thus my desire to take extra precautions.

>Also, it's pretty uncommon for me to drive solo anymore so it's far less of an issue. There's almost nothing a person in another seat can do if you are asleep, even if they realize that in time (and that's a huge assumption). Speaking as someone who has unhealthy interest at failures, disasters, and their root causes, this type of attitude is super common, and always leads to disasters. Please seek medical attention…

I guess what he is meaning is that you can change drivers when you are not alone?

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#154

Post by adriancr »

ogre_codes wrote: post #111
gamblor956 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some states your medical condition would prevent you from getting (or renewing) a driver's license. You need to talk to a doctor immediately because you're an active risk to other people on the road.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure "5 hours of mountain biking", having post-ride food with buddies then driving home isn't considered a medical condition. Mostly just doing something physically tiring and having a full stomach, plus being in a monotonous 1-2 hour drive is a recipe for sleep. Thus my comment below about taking a nap and having company on the return trip.

Have a coffee/redbull, get some sleep, or have someone else drive you.

You might just doze off for a second or two and hit a tree or worse, someone... ( best depiction: https://youtu.be/ya3_EwQdJrk?t=30 )

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#155

Post by kbenson »

serf wrote: post #144
ZitchDog wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

Would you accept that response as the reasoning of a judge after an incident? I wouldn't. I'd consider it criminal negligence to get behind the wheel of a car at times when it's impossible to make a suitable effort to drive such equipment. It's not acceptable to hop into a car drunk, either. The effects aren't really that much different between the two, response-time wise.

The problem is, that like drunk driving, the person making the call doesn't always have the experience to know when they are impaired, or how close they are to falling asleep.

I've driven the family from Northern Califorina to Sourthern California quite a few times, many of them overnight. It took one instance of actually falling asleep at the wheel for a few seconds to realize "oh, that's the difference between tired and falling asleep at the wheel."

I definitely recognize it now and never let it happen now (stopping and sleeping, trading out for someone else to drive, etc), but the point is I didn't think I was close to that level previously. Experience is something that we can't expect all people to have and exhibit the wisdom of, and unfortunately some things learned through experience are much harder (or nearly impossible) to teach without doing, and for dangerous things that's a problem for normal people.

As a much much more extreme example, I've heard that's why Navy Seal training keeps candidates up and physically and mentally exhausted for days at a time. Partly to see who can handle the pressure, and partly so they have experienced that condition before and understand it in themselves and others.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#156

Post by rndgermandude »

GordonS wrote: post #50
pupdogg wrote: post #35

Comments on the site itself are pure gold as some are pointing out the various (mostly humorous) events that are not being actively tracked with their driver-facing camera. I will try to compile this list below: - DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_SIDE - DRIVER_MISSING - DRIVER_PICKING_BOOGERS - DRIVER_SEAT_FULLY_RECLINED - DRIVER_SNORING - DRIVER_SHAVING - DRIVER_VAPING - DRIVER_LIVESTREAMING - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP - DRIVER_AP…

> - DRIVER_SHAVING > - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP > - DRIVER_APPLYING_LIPSTICK I've actually seen drivers doing all 3 of these. The shaving (with an electric razor, obviously) I only saw once, but I frequently see women applying makeup and lipstick.

I have seen drivers in huge cargo trucks read the newspaper on the autobahn (the newspaper strategically positioned over the steering wheel, of course), or watch TV. Scary shit. One guy was very interested in his porn mag, one hand holding the mag the other hand "occupied" too, so he somehow steered with his knees.

One day I drove with a fellow student to some university event, and he suddenly at a red light took out an electric razor and started shaving. "Want me to take over and drive?" "Nah, you're not insured to drive this car" (true).

And the makeup thing too, seen that a lot of times, once even two ladies (driver and passenger) in the next car applying eye makeup at the same time, as if to make sure neither of them could watch the traffic.

But nothing beats the guy who was so deep down in his seat he was barely visible except for his feet on his dashboard. He apparently thought that being able to use the brake was optional on the autobahn. I can only hope that his car was one of the rare special fitted cars that had a hand operated break paddle, tho the car's steering column looked pretty regular from my POV.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#157

Post by kraigspear »

foepys wrote: post #141
danudey wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of technology would be great, even if the data never leaves the user's account, is never farmed by Tesla, and is never used by the autopilot. Imagine if the parent poster falls asleep at the wheel and does injure or kill someone. They could point to the fact that it's never happened before, but if the court can subpoena Tesla to get data that indicates this guy dozes off with some regularity (and can see in…

The court will very likely not have to subpoena anything. Tesla has a history of publicly putting all blame on the driver when Autopilot once again kills a person by driving them into a divider or a stationary truck. They will go out of their way to show and twist the driver's harvested data to their advantage.

Unless AP doesn't allow the driver to control the vehicle it is the drivers fault.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#158

Post by lm28469 »

ogre_codes wrote: post #66
lm28469 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real feature should just be a button that shifts insurance liability to Tesla for the period of the autopilot engagement and charges you a floating premium for it based on traffic conditions per mile/km while the autopilot is on. No amount of money makes up for human lives. You can pay a premium of $1mil per mile, if the car end up smashing into a family car at 80mph because the system was fooled by a shadow or…

> No amount of money makes up for human lives. You can pay a premium of $1mil per mile, if the car end up smashing into a family car at 80mph because the system was fooled by a shadow or a reflection it's still a net negative This is a metric human drivers fail to hit every single day. There is some acceptable level of risk in shifting driving to a robot. How you draw that comparison and draw the line is tough. It's…

> This is a metric human drivers fail to hit every single day.

Yes exactly, and when they fuck up they suffer the consequences. Which if you were reckless will most likely be years in prison. You shouldn't be able to get away by paying money which is what the comment I replied to asks for.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#159

Post by stcredzero »

pupdogg wrote: post #35

Comments on the site itself are pure gold as some are pointing out the various (mostly humorous) events that are not being actively tracked with their driver-facing camera. I will try to compile this list below: - DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_SIDE - DRIVER_MISSING - DRIVER_PICKING_BOOGERS - DRIVER_SEAT_FULLY_RECLINED - DRIVER_SNORING - DRIVER_SHAVING - DRIVER_VAPING - DRIVER_LIVESTREAMING - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP - DRIVER_AP…

I really want to know what HEAD_TRUNC in the actual symbol list means. I totally read that as "head truncated," as in the Florida man who perished in a Tesla while watching Harry Potter.

Also, you could add more items like, DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_TOP.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#160

Post by missosoup »

echelon wrote: post #112
ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

> Please don't get behind the wheel if you're drowsy.

I know two people with the issue that GP is talking about, and it's not what you're talking about.

They're perfectly alert when they get behind the wheel. They get drowsy on longer drives like 1hr+, which is why any time we do road trips I drive for them. And all that 'pull over and take a power nap' bullshit doesn't work. It's not grounded in any science to start with. I know both have tried coffee, breaks, stopping and taking a walk, etc. Of all those things, they said taking a nap is actually the worst because when they wake up they feel even more tired.

So their choices are: have someone else drive them, don't drive beyond a 1hr distance range, or deal with the drowsiness. You can imagine how sometimes life just forces them into #3 even though both are keenly aware of their issue and do their best to mitigate it.

Tech to detect when they phase out and save their life is absolutely the correct way to go.

Post reply on HN